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Comment by scottLobster | Hacker News Reader

And why shouldn't I be offended? You're bald-faced admitting to not trusting me due to my skin color, based on traumatic experiences you had decades before I was born, hundreds of miles away from the place of my birth. I hope for your sake you don't make other life choices with that kind of logic.

And you're teaching these obsolete lessons to your children and grandchildren, hampering the massive progress society has already made since 1956.

That's not to say discrimination doesn't exist today, and maybe "Never Trust Whitey" was a survival mechanism in the Jim Crow south, but I was taught the whole purpose of the civil rights movement was to move past mentalities like yours.

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Your feels are not why the Green Book exists and the Civil Rights Movement was not to move past mentalities like his. The Civil Rights Movement was to make white people stop systematically oppressing black people and taking advantage of their persons and their property. Those survival mechanisms you half-heartedly nod to are still necessary today because the police in America will kill you without a blink if you're black and the likelihood that they get away with it is very, very high.

Re-casting the movement to make white people stop oppressing black people as a shot at "mentalities like his," when white people have been oppressing, killing, and enslaving black people for the entirety of the history of this country is beyond the pale.

And, to be very clear, I am white. I'm also not dishonest, though, and that matters.

Actually you're being very dishonest, namely through the use of overgeneralization. Not all police will kill black people "without a blink", and not all white people from the last 300 freaking years can be lumped together.

Regardless, my "feels" have nothing to do with it. How do you propose to solve racial inequality if people categorically refuse to trust each other on the basis of race? Moving beyond "don't trust whitey" and similar mentalities on all sides would seem to be a prerequisite.

The "whole purpose of the civil rights movement" was to secure rights for people who didn't have them, not to placate the sensibilities of the oppressors.

In the US, to this day, we have terribly segregated and unequal communities where "never trust whitey" is a survival strategy, especially when it comes to police.

And moving past mentalities like those of the parent post would naturally secure those rights even more strongly.

For my part I was taught that not trusting people on the basis of race was racist and that I shouldn't do it. I was taught that making general assumptions about people based on race was racist and that I shouldn't do it. I was taught all this as early as kindergarten.

Sure there are some areas today where "never trust whitey" might still sadly be a survival strategy. You could also say it's a survival strategy for a black person at a Klan meeting. The issue is applying it as a general rule as the parent poster did. We're not going to solve any of the remaining racial inequalities if people categorically refuse to trust each other on the basis of race. That's arguably the definition of racism.

> And moving past mentalities like those of the parent post would naturally secure those rights even more strongly.

A critical part of "moving past" this means recognizing that we are not past this.

A lot of people treat things like the Civil Rights Acts or the Emancipation Proclamation as a faucet. Turn off the faucet and racism is fixed. In reality, it's more like a house fire. It raged bright for a long time, thankfully you put it out. Of course you can't move right back in. There's cleanup to do. There's rebuilding to do. You wouldn't tell the family outside the just-extinguished fire to "move past" it.

White people (myself included) are insulated form a lot of these effects, so it's important we stop and force ourselves to consider them. It's too easy otherwise to pretend the fire's out and everyone's peacefully dreaming in their beds.

> Sure there are some areas today where "never trust whitey" might still sadly be a survival strategy. ... The issue is applying it as a general rule as the parent poster did.

Maybe it's a lot worse than you think, because a lot of people with actual experience being black seem to say so. The people who say it's not are, IME, the people with the least experience.

Those areas where it is a valid survival strategy for blacks in America are, in addition to the usual "oh, most of the former sundown towns after the sun goes down," but also almost any place the police ever are, ever.

It is not on individual blacks trying to get by in their day to "solve racial inequalities". It is on those of us with privilege and power to ally with those without such privilege and power and fight with them, not to demand that they do stupid and self-harmful things because we, the privileged and insecure, would like to believe that things are just great.

Things are really, really bad for a lot of people right now. It's worth considering their viewpoints before foghorning your way in with yours.

Not "didnt have them..." rights that were usurped by the majority for fun and profit. There is a difference. Getting what back $10 that was stolen from me is not the same as making a new $10.

>the massive progress society has already made

not very clear in the current political climate.

>a survival mechanism

it is. the rest of us are trying to survive out here with secret trump supporters in our workplaces, schools, universities, restaurants, grocery stores, and every aspect of our day to day lives.

To Scott: Your hostile response says to me the lessons are not as obsolete as you may have convinced yourself that they are.

If I came off as "hostile" I'm sorry. But if you think you can't trust me based on my skin color and one strong disagreement, that's your loss.

You are coming off as contemptuous of the basic lived experiences of people who have actually lived those experiences.

Maybe it would be a good idea to quit while you're behind.

How? I never challenged the validity of his/her experiences, simply their relevance to the modern day and how useful they are. Apparently that's too much for some around here, people are putting all sorts of words in my mouth.

Behind what? No one "wins" an internet debate. I read an opinion I strongly disagreed with and challenged it. And while I have the time I'm continuing to challenge some of the responders. It's honestly been thought-provoking.

Instead of trying to shut them down yet again, perhaps it's time we took seriously the fears and experiences of black people. The evidence is pretty overwhelming that they are very real (not that I would have reason to doubt them).

> That's not to say discrimination doesn't exist today, and maybe "Never Trust Whitey" was a survival mechanism in the Jim Crow south, but I was taught the whole purpose of the civil rights movement was to move past mentalities like yours.

The reverse racism bit isn't real if you think about it. Allow me to ease your mind: You have nothing to fear. You won't be lynched; racist police won't make you drop your pants in a 'stop & frisk'; if you do get arrested, the court system is mostly run by white people so racism won't cause you to be put in jail and be given a disproportionately harsh sentence; the laws are mostly written by white people so you won't have to worry about near-open discrimination, like the war on drugs, or just plain ignorance about the problems you face; there won't be a whole major party running on subtle discrimination against you with dog whistle messaging; almost every job you apply for will be with white people, so your skin color won't hurt (and will often help) you there; your kids won't wonder if they are inferior, because everyone they see on TV and in leadership will look like them (except for the criminal characters on TV); you won't have to have 'the talk' with your kids about the police; you won't have to worry about how to give them realistic expectations, such as they will have a difficult time in certain careers - what if they want to be police detective, governor of Alabama, or star developer in Silicon Valley? You're safe; take a deep breath.

I just read an article in the NY Times about NYPD police detectives. In the intelligence division, a premier assignment dealing with terrorism, almost all black officers were put in what was called the "Rap Unit"; their job there was security for prominent entertainers (rappers, I presume), and they were promoted at far lower rates than white peers.

> I was taught the whole purpose of the civil rights movement was to move past mentalities like yours.

Nope, the whole purpose of the civil rights movement was to move past mentalities like yours.

Yeah, I want people in general to stop judging others on the basis of race. Clearly the exact opposite objective of the civil rights movement.. /sarcasm

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