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Comment by thomastjeffery | Hacker News Reader

If you do want to jump into emacs, there is evil-mode. Just remember that it isn't trying to be vim, just feel like it.

Personally, I have found both editors too difficult to customize since I stopped using qwerty. There are just too many default keybindings. Emacs modes all map the same keys, and remapping vim has too many edge cases.

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To be clear: Vim is definitely usable using another layout, but I already had so much muscle memory with Vim using qwerty, I didn't want to relearn normal-mode at the same time as learning another layout, especially since `j` is moved to `y` in my layout (the hardest key to reach).

So I `nnoremap`ed them all, but I still have a couple of issues.

The first problem with remapping keys is that you have to remap each key again for every key that can come after the first key, i.e. to move `cw` to a different key, you have to remap `c`, and `w`. Now consider commands like `qa4caw`, and you can see it gets really hairy, really fast.

The second problem I have with remapping keys is that my qwerty `h` key is replaced with `y` in my layout, and remapping y adds a strange pause, and prevents the next command from working correctly. `w` has the same issue.

Emacs with evil-mode had a slightly better solution: I could my real layout in normal-mode, and have Emacs emulate another layout in insert-mode. Still, I would have to use qwerty as my real layout to get that to work, so it's only slightly more convenient.

Long story short: I used normal Emacs for a while since I didn't have strong muscle-memory, and the layout I use is pretty comfortable with default Emacs bindings. Emacs as an editor is quite nice anyway. Out of a mix of frustration and interest, I am working on a new editor with a more purposefully modular design, so I don't have to rely on workarounds. One of my main goals is to have "defaults" separated into separate modules rather than baked-in.

For those wondering, the layout I use is workman[0]

[0](http://workmanlayout.org/)

Interesting. I use Workman as well on my 40% keyboards (standard keyboards I use QWERTY and don't even attempt to touch type). I think learning Workman and Vim at the same time is what saved me.

I never remapped anything, I just avoid h/j/k/l (I have my arrow keys bound to the homerow) and added a bunch of bindings (F3-8, for example) that wouldn't normally be of much use to me (sitting behind the fn key on my laptop) but are also homerow-accessible.

I have transitioned to emacs + evil lately, and found that mostly seamless, but I can imagine it would have been rough if I was trying to keep QWERTY muscle memory.

FWIW I have been using vim with Colemak for quite a few years now, with only movie remains needed to get movement back on the home row [0]

0: https://github.com/jimhester/dotfiles/blob/master/colemak/vi...

For what it's worth, I use Colemak instead of QWERTY, and just use Emacs keybindings as-is. Works great for me.

I'm the same, Colemak without any rebindings, it works just fine.

Dvorak user for ~20 years now. A little over half that time was spent in vi/vim and the last ~7 or thereabouts have been emacs. Navigation in vi was weird, but I did it anyway. Otherwise I haven't found anything particularly odious in emacs.

I use vim with a Dvorak keyboard. Made a few keybinding changes (about ten or so) but that's all.

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