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Comment by throwa34943way | Hacker News Reader

Why bother with check fraud that can get you in trouble, when people will give you millions willingly on crowdfuding website for 3D renderings?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1041610927/znaps-the-9-...

$ 2,438,203

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ritot-the-first-projectio...

$1,401,510

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/shiftwear-customize-your-...

$925,952

And you're not even obligated to fulfil anything, just demonstrate you've "tried" enough!

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And if you're bad at 3D graphics, then make an ICO instead. All it takes is a Bootstrap template and PDF with some arcane math formulas in it (not necessarily valid).

> not necessarily valid

Which successful ICO?

The first one is existing product(s) --- Google "magnetic USB cable" for plenty of examples --- probably all made by the same small set of factories in China.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-Piece-Moizen-Micro...

None of these existed before the Kickstarter though and I've tried about 10 different ones in Hong Kong and they where all complete shit. (most "work" but don't fit properly and the magnets are too loose or too strong)

I don't know for sure, but I would think that there is likely some kind of difficulty in sending high-speed signalling through a magentic field like that. I think there was a reason Apple only ever used magsafe for power.

Why don't you hold a magnet next to a USB cable and see if anything happens?

It's funny how I intuitively noticed that all 3 were likely to be scams (or just unlikely to be shipped due to a team's inability to see it through to shipping) just from:

- a lack of consistent, high-quality brand identity; you can notice design tropes that a novice/underpaid graphic designer would use

- use of generic/non-exclusive stock photography (this woman - https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/... - is a meme: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ariane-the-overexposed-stock-p...)

- plain kitsch: https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/...

It's funny how we have been trained into thinking a product is sub-par because the team didn't spend a lot of money on marketing material.

At that stage, the product is its marketing. You're selling the promise, as there's no physical product to evaluate on your own, or widely available reviews of your product.

When a company is really invested in a product, they put a lot of work on it, often worth much more the investment (in money, time, opportunity costs, mental energy etc). Scammers just want to pick the low hanging fruit.

Good marketing can be inexpensive, but it's not easy. Perhaps it's pick 3 of: cheap, effective, tasteful, easy.

really? that tipped you off?

not the fact the watch is breaking laws of physics (projecting black light), or shoes use display that doesnt exist?

Both have been destroyed on EEVBlog and other technical forums in mere days of showing up on KS.

Kickstarter is at least trying to avoid that:

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer#section4

A $10 rendering is a good test of that though. Most people aren't going to work very hard to get $10 back.

When I did a Kickstarter for a client they didn't allow renderings, yet a week after a bigger brand did exactly that, used only renderings. The "rules" are very loose on KS and the projects that I've backed that failed (7 of them totalling 2000$) where all recommended by KS staff.

Yeah, they basically disclaim any responsibility for ensuring the projects get done. But the TOS are trying to establish that you have a contract with the project and thus should have some recourse to get your pledge back if they fail to deliver.

As above, that doesn't work all that well for small sums, but I think it doesn't encourage a free for all either.

Have any that you backed succeeded?

Of course, many, about 10 of them. The most prominent being Oculus Rift and RigidBot (Though RigidBot wen't bankrupt due to severely underestimating shipment costs)

Not really, since that section places no time limit on when things have to happen, they are completely unenforceable. And even if they were, it's beyond the means of most people to actually go to court over the price they paid. IMHO the only purpose that section serves is to deceive potential backers into thinking they have some legal recourse.

GoFundMe scams are probably easier to pull off than Kickstarter scams.

But they're also fraud, which is riskier

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