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Comment by acconrad | Hacker News Reader

Can someone explain the mechanics of things like how caffeine naps work? I never understand how people are supposed to implement these things, it always seems like they just assume you will fall asleep instantly.

For example, they say you should drink a coffee and then immediately take a 20 min nap. Seriously? It takes me 5-15min to fall asleep at night, let alone during the day. At a minimum this seems like a 45 min ordeal.

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It's a skill like any other. To acquire it, the most important part is consistency. E.g. Always reserve 30 minutes, 5 to prepare the environment (close window, ensure napping place, put sleep mask, earplugs, etc), 25 for the nap itself. After alarm goes off never try to sleep more. Esp. when you do fall asleep on the last 5 minutes, it is too tempting to say "let's add another 20 minutes" but that won't do any good to get the habit and skill.

The brain must eventually realize it's nap time (preparation actions are the cues for starting), and that only has a very limited amount of time to actually nap.

Note that the preparations are useful for evening / night sleep too, and it's advised for children too to have a routine / ritual. Still helps for adults.

Also note that all this does not work for everyone.

It takes me at least an hour to go to sleep at night, and it has done so since I was a very little kid.

Caffeine intake is not correlated, because there have been plenty of times when I hadn't had caffeine for weeks, months, or even years, and yet this pattern has not changed.

Not everyone reacts the same to these kinds of drugs, and not everyone can participate in the manner suggested.

How old are you? I had the same problem as a kid...first 20 years, really. Then I started 40+ hours/week and cramming stuff into my nights so soon I was so tired I was able to go to sleep very quickly. Then 10-15 years later I added kids to the mix, and now I can go to sleep basically on-demand any time of day. Power naps are critical; coffee and knock off for 20 minutes. Feel alive after.

I don't know about that poster, but I'm mid 30's and definitely still lie awake while thinking about how tired I'm going to be in the morning.

Physical excersise in the evening works for me. Knocks me out cold when I get home.

Physical exercise earlier in the day helps me sleep at night, vigorous exercise less than 4-6 hours before bed keeps me awake.

Hasn't really worked for me - I hate mornings so I have traditionally worked out in the evenings anyway (although by coincidence I'm now trying morning workouts as a way to wake up!). This comment brought to you courtesy of the 4+ hours I spent awake in bed last night :(

Depends on what kind of exercise for me. Lifting and I can sleep. Running and I'm wired.

Managed to find this talk I watched many years ago on Google Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hAw1z8GdE8

IIRC, the professor explained that if you fall asleep faster than around 10-15 minutes, you're probably sleep deprived and need to sleep more.

I find certain familiar TV shows playing at moderate volume can greatly help my own problems getting to sleep. For me it's Futurama, 30 Rock, Star Trek: TNG, and Good Eats. All things I can consistently enjoy watching over and over, with a minimal amount of high dynamic range (i.e. no shouting), and things that don't surprise or grab attention. Sleeping with a partner that has trouble getting to sleep at all with something on has made things a little more difficult.

That's step one, step two is getting to sleep at the same time every night, taking care to _not_ stay up into the early hours or sleep in, and general human maintenance. It's still not perfect, or sometimes even very good, and I'm afraid it'll always take care unless I make lifestyle choices that make me always tired.

you might want to look into meditation, you can use the same techniques to fall asleep very quickly. Learning to turn off the internal dialogue requires practice, in my case at least.

You may have wacky cortisol levels.

One thing to look into is tulsi/holy basil tea, which blunts cortisol release. I do BJJ in the evenings during the week, and I find that a cup or two of tea helps my body kick out of workout mode pretty immediately.

The idea is not to go into full sleep mode. Put your phone away, lie down, relax your body and close your eyes. The act of resting for say 20 minutes is enough to put a spring in your step for the rest of the day.

I had to practice falling asleep quickly. a trick that works for me is to close my eyes and start to imagine something dreamlike. Hopefully it spins out to a full dream. Even better if I stay lucid.

I found that after a few weeks of trying to take 20 minute naps after lunch I was able to fall asleep pretty quickly. One thing I read at the time said that even if you don't fall asleep during the 20 minutes, you still get some of the benefits. I think napping sort of taught me how to fall asleep quickly.

This is the key. If you don't worry about actually falling asleep, and accept that even just lying down is going to be a benefit, you'll find yourself falling asleep more often than not.

I do a 20 minute nap every day after work and it makes me new again. Just a great transition from working me to home me.

There are things that can help.

Be both physically and mentally active during the day (mentally can also mean concentration. hours of driving is mentally draining)

Take a warm bath - cooling down will make you sleepy (but only in that 10 min window)

reduce bright lights, and blue lights (light containing blue, sky-toned blues, like strip lights or mobile phones) in favor of mellow-red tones. Blue cones make you more alert, reds make you sleepier. reduce bright lights overall as you approach bed-time.

Keep an eye on you foods, not just caffeine. sugar, slow and fast, and it's effect on blood-sugar [1]. eating can help wake you up when you get sluggish, but digesting can also* make you sluggish..

be comfy - quiet room at right temperature etc. Make your place of sleep a dedicated sleeping place, to strengthen association - do not work in or near the bed or in the bedroom, or browse or use you phone..

Of course, many of these do not help you take midday micro-naps. I the only thing I can think of is something I haven't really tried with success:

Clear your busy mind, via meditation..

Of course, it is supposed that doing this can relieve stress even if you don't actually sleep. I'm not really sure how micro-naps work. breaking your average sleep cycle (90 mins long) will make you feel terrible, so I assume a nap isn't a proper sleep cycle? Perhaps an after-work (~7pm) nap at home, to help after-work grogginess would be easier and more convenient?

[1] It'd be nice if I could easily monitor my blood sugar, adrenaline, concentration etc, in order to see the impact of coffee, sugar etc on myself..

Probably you wait until you're drowsy after lunch, intake caffeine, nap from your drowsiness and then wake up when the caffeine hits.

I don't know, genetically and functionally I'm a fast metabolizer of caffeine so I can drink energy drinks and go to sleep after a bit (15-20 minutes or so) of laying in the dark.

> It takes me 5-15min to fall asleep at night, let alone during the day

I'm very similar but have found that using Beats Brainwave Entrainment I can get a solid 15 minutes deep relaxation. Just get in a comfy chair where you won't be interrupted, pop your headphones on and listen.

I've no comment at all about the science etc behind the Brainwave Entrainment, I just use it as a good method to get a catnap. I'll sometimes set the alarm for 20-25 minutes just in case I go off to proper sleep but find I usually wake when the sounds stop.

"The reason it works so well is because it takes around 20 minutes for the body to respond to the effects of caffeine. By taking a short nap immediately after consumption, the stimulant effect kicks in just as you are waking up. Not only will you feel revived from your power nap, you’ll also have the added benefit of the caffeine boost." - https://sleepjunkies.com/tips/the-caffeine-nap/

It helps if you're exhausted, otherwise it can quickly become frustrating. I find taking a long-ish walk (c. 30 mins) really helps burn off any residual anxiety and slows me down enough to fall asleep easily. Also, keeping your phone/tablet physically far away helps to cut out distractions.

I love coffee naps myself, and I've found that even if I don't fall asleep completely I still end up feeling extremely refreshed. If you have half an hour to experiment with it, I think you'll get a lot out of it.

Used to be the same until I started flying a lot and having to take advantage of every minute I can to sleep. 6am flights with a night owl schedule just don't mix. Also have gotten really good at sleeping sitting up.

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