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Comment by mattm | Hacker News Reader

A couple months ago I wanted to get rid of an old Dell printer. My uncle gave it to me for free so I thought I would just give it away for free on Craigslist. I had a total of 9 people contact me saying they were interested in it. Many people expressed skepticism and asked "Does it work?" and "Why are you giving it away for free?" Out of those 9 people that contacted me saying they were interested, 0 actually showed up to pick it up. One person even asked me if I could "deliver" it to their house as they "really wanted it" but were too sick to come pick it up. I wasted so much time dealing with these people.

After realising this wasn't working, I re-listed it for $5 and the first person who contacted me actually came and picked it up without any issues.

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Interesting story! But of course, I hope my experience will not be quite the same. I've tried this once, and it went well. Perhaps I was just lucky.

I feel like HN is a different crowd that might understand my motivations for doing this, given my explanation, unlike all the people who were skeptics to your free giveaway. People on Craigslist are probably right to be suspicious of someone giving away stuff there for free, and to not want to go visit them.

I think this crowd also understands the value of web development, and I hope I've made it very clear that the job should be limited in scope. I'll fill HN in on how this goes later.

Craigslist is used by a LOT of flakes. I've also had people stand me up when charging for an item.

The best thing I've found to eliminate flakes is to include a paragraph where you ask them to only reply if they're serious, and not to waste my time if they can't come to pick it up--and also include specific instructions as to HOW to apply ("Include your name, a phone number, and when it's OK to call. Don't ask if it's gone...")

Folks who don't follow the instructions don't get the time of day from me, because they're the most likely flakes. Before I started doing this, I would have 2/3 of all people flake on me. Afterward, it was down to 1/10 or better.

BUT, in this case, I see your point: He'd be better off spending his time working for people who are willing to pay SOMETHING. Otherwise he'll get requests for products that may not ever see hosting, and that will be harder to use on a resume.

The site wasn't actually Craigslist but a similar local buy & sell that is much more reliable in my city to use than Craigslist. I've listed a number of things to sell and usually haven't had a problem. It was only in this one instance. But those are still good tips. I'll keep them in mind in the future.

And the conclusion is that he should offer his labor for minimum or some other small wage, and that conclusion is false.

"And the conclusion is that he should offer his labor for minimum or some other small wage, and that conclusion is false."

no, it's not false. If someone told me they would work on my website for free, I wouldn't want to give them any serious jobs. The reason is because there is no reason for them to continue working on my project if something better comes up or they lose interest.

Actually, if you wanted continued work, you'd pay for it. You get only one free job, which should be limited in scope. If you want more work, you won't get it for free, and that's reason enough for any freelancer to keep working with you.

"Actually, if you wanted continued work, you'd pay for it. You get only one free job, which should be limited in scope. If you want more work, you won't get it for free, and that's reason enough for any freelancer to keep working with you."

If you are working on a free project for me and you get a couple of paid projects (they are paying you), my project will most likely get put on the back-burner. Even if the freelancer knows they won't get any more work from me, projects that pay the bills now are more important.

That's true but you may have gotten some free work out of it. Still not a bad deal for a limited scope task.

No, that wasn't what I meant at all. The value of this printer was very little since it was old so instead of offering it for free, I offered it for it's value.

The value of a printer is easy to understand. The value of a programmer with no portfolio is not.

Is your argument that he ought to charge nothing because it's too hard to figure out what he's worth? If you're not willing to sort out what you're worth, you're dead in the water from the outset. Don't work for free. It's almost always a disastrous set-up. Your client doesn't have skin in the game. There's an emotional investment that comes with paying for something. It's a demonstration of VALUE. No payment, no value. It's pretty close to that simple.

That is one way to look at it.

Another way would be to create a portfolio. Spend $25/mo or whatever on a web server, build some web apps and put them online for people to see.

Don't work for free.

How do you feel about working on open source projects for free?

I think working on open source projects for free is different. There usually isn't really a client.. for a lot of people who work on open source projects, the client is themselves.. so in a sense, they're not working for free.. they're putting in effort, and getting a return. That said, some of the "Don't work for free" challenges still hold.. like motivation. For many people, it helps to have money on the table, and a timeline committed to. Loads of open source projects fall down because interest and motivation wax and wane. It's helpful to have an outside force keep you moving forward, and someone else's money is a big outside force.

Working on OSS "for free" is different than working for some guy's startup without pay. At least with OSS, you can usually find a link to the commits you contributed, provide an explanation of how you solved that particular problem and why, and stick it in a portfolio.

You can't do that with proprietary software that may or may not even be running in a year from now.

Startups can open their source as well.

It makes sense for various tools which we can't guarantee will be supported if the business doesn't survive. I'm much more likely to work with and contribute to code I know will be around independent of a business.

This story usually involves puppies.

My favourite version was the video of the guy who goes and stands next to the "FREE HUGS" guy offering "PREMIUM HUGS: $2".

I think he makes about $32 in the first hour.

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