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Comment by joering2 | Hacker News Reader

But wht was wrong with TouchID ? Were there any examples of it being weak security. What will be after Touch ID? Will Apple continue progress and built in PinchID - a tiny needle that sting you to test if you are you based on your blood/DNA?

This is a serious question. Because of there was noting wrong with Touch then why is it removed from new phone and replaced with Face ID.

Im also concerned about the data Apple will collect. I assume information about your face have to be very detailed so that this FaceID is secure. Is it really that of a push to see article in 6 months: FBI got a copy of whole Apple FaceDatabase and was able to identify and find a very dengerous criminal.

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TouchID was removed because it took up space on the front of the phone and Apple wanted the screen to be bigger. There's no deeper reason than that.

> Will Apple continue progress and built in PinchID - a tiny needle that sting you to test if you are you based on your blood/DNA?

I struggle to believe you when you say that's a serious question...

> Im also concerned about the data Apple will collect.

The FaceID data will be stored in the secure enclave locally on your phone, just like TouchID data was. Apple will not collect it.

> TouchID was removed because it took up space on the front of the phone and Apple wanted the screen to be bigger. There's no deeper reason than that.

The Pixel handset has the fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone. It appears to work quite well. Much of this needless outrage could be obviated by allowing multiple simultaneous biometrics for auth; while taking the phone out of your pocket, place your finger on the sensor to initiate FaceID.

> The Pixel handset has the fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone.

How would I use my phone on a desk without lifting it up? I can do that with TouchID, but if the sensor is on the back, I can’t.

I confess, never in my years of phone ownership have I had that specific use case, or considered that it might be important for others. Do you find yourself doing that often? If so, can I ask what for?

You can't really do that with the face id either, unless you loom over your desk in an awkward way.

From their promo video of iPhone X, FaceID works at angles over 45° (see the swimmer portion)

> multiple simultaneous biometrics

That's very un-Apple.

Second, facial features are more unique than fingerprints - according to apple's own presentation, there's a 1 in 10.000 chance that prints from different people would unlock it. With face ID, this becomes 1 in 50.000 (iirc).

Unless you have a twin.

Twins have different fingerprints.

I believe they said 1:50,000 and 1:1,000,000.

https://www.reddit.com/r/answers/comments/1ggc2q/why_do_euro...

He's not correcting the use of a period, he's correcting the numbers themselves. 1:50,000 and 1:1,000,000 vs 1:10,000 and 1:50,000

TouchID is trivially defeated by a 6-year-old:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/28/girl-u...

Did you read the article? Troy Hunt addressed that.

All the more reason for FaceID

The FaceDatabase as you imply is stored on the phone in a secure enclave. None of this stuff is sent to Apple.

Not everybody has fingerprints. I may be the minority here, but I look forward to not having to enter my pin each time.

There are more people who cover their face (e.g. Muslim women wearing burkas) than people who don't have fingerprints. I wish they had both TouchID and FaceID.

Well, they do.

You have to decide which type of biometrics to use when you choose your model, but that's fine for a lot of cases (such as those who wear burkas or those who have no fingerprints).

Hopefully the return period gives people enough time to be sure they've made the right choice.

TouchID also is problematic if you're wearing gloves, which people who don't live in San Francisco do during non-trivial portions of the year.

Not sure if this applies to Apple's implementation, but my phone fingerprint recognition fails if my finger is wet (sweat, washing hands).

I haven't tried training it with a wet fingerprint.

This definitely applies to Apple's implementation. It's infuriatingly sensitive to even damp fingers, in my experience.

> people who don't live in San Francisco

I find this humorous because for me, an Australian, San Francisco is quite cold and I wore gloves there.

> TouchID also is problematic if you're wearing gloves

And the touchscreen?

There are plenty of gloves designed to work with capacitative touchscreens (small wire mesh in the fingertips) but none that let you use TouchID.

As long as you can easily unbutton your shirt:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2430654/iPhon...

Also fails constantly when you're doing certain physical tasks. It becomes nearly useless after a few hours of doing landscaping work.

Curious how much face one needs to show during winter for FaceID to work.

Well, you can always still use your PIN, same as you can with Face ID.

It was so they could remove the home button.

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