Comment by superjustice | Hacker News Reader

Comment by superjustice | Hacker News Reader

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I often think there should be a superhero archangel comic character that is a ruthless defender of justice. I don't understand the mentality of prosecutors, nor the judges, public defenders and others who are also complacent in an evil system.

I have had three encounters with law enforcement, the first ended in similar fashion to this story. I was charged with a crime I didn't commit which happened to occur on video.

After 18-months, and threats of serious felony charges, I refused to accept a plea. I asked my lawyer if it was illegal to plead guilty to a crime I didn't commit and he said it was.

The prosecutor then says, "the state moves to drop the case citing lack of evidence". Again, the crime (theft) was recorded on videotape and two other guys I didn't know clearly stole the items involved. I won but the court wouldn't actually let me win.

Another time I was caught in an unfortunate incident where a security guard pushed me into a street. I was tackled, tasered, later choked, threatened to be killed and then powerslammed head first on concrete by Detective of the Year, Glenn A. Ritchie, of the Broward County Sheriff's Office.

Ritchie charged me with non-violent misdemeanors and then a day later, alleged felonies in a contradictory and clearly false 2nd police report. I spent 34-days in jail until the charges were non-filed but not until the felony was refiled as a misdemeanor, sent to the wrong address, resulting in a still standing capias warrant for my arrest.

The system is flawed. People who work in the courts, especially in major cities, are not to be celebreated but derided. It's an insane system of high bails, boilerplate plea deals and cold indifference.

Public defender offices are funded by the state and they are terribly under funded.

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/the_gideon_revolu...

Because not much political upside to helping criminal defendants exists, many jurisdictions end up with a perennial funding problem ... In both cases, the committee heard about extreme funding shortfalls, excessive caseloads and insufficient pay.

After years of cuts, his budget was down from $9 million to about $6 million, and he had just eight investigators for 21,000 cases per year.

This matters because the majority of defendants—a 2014 study put it at 80 percent—use some kind of indigent defense. That means most Americans charged with a crime are at risk of bad outcomes partly caused by the quality of representation that they can afford.

This is where I'd love to see rappers that care about their community out there money. Increase public defender funds. So many predominantly black folk go to jail because they lack the resources to fight the corrupt system.

Black Lives Matter organized something similar this year for Mother's Day https://www.thenation.com/article/this-mothers-day-black-liv...

I'm not sure on the best way to handle this, but it seems like this should come from tax money, rather than donation money. Relying on donations to make sure our justice system is working seems like the wrong solution.

I don't want to rely on it. I just think this would be one of the best public works rappers can do. "Fuck the police"? Sure with good lawyers that don't just cut a deal.

"out there money." -- what is meant by this?

put their money

A mentor of mine who used to work for a government agency once told me something that I hadn't really appreciated until recently. To paraphrase, sometimes the best way to change a system that is flawed is to work from within. It's harder, sure, since it takes time to get enough power to make effective change, but it's an idea nonetheless.

This is a sane advice on face value.

Yet following it in an heavily corrupt organization means you find yourself doing very dirty stuff to get recognized by your peers, oversee and facilitate corruption to get buy in from your superiors, and crush weaker people to stand on top where you’ll get more power.

In the event you yourself get crushed in this process, the only trace you’ll leave in the world will be dirty things you didn’t agree with in the first place and actually strived to change.

I wonder how much that approach bares fruits when it comes to really shitty organizations.

I think it can work, but it requires some kind of laser focus on the "true goal". I also tend to fear what else our (hypothetical) protagonist may do when the ends are (much) more important than the means.

If you did enough dirty work to get to the top of a corrupt organisation you can be quickly removed if you try to challenge the status quo. After all, all your peers have a ton of dirt on you.

The best way to change a flawed system is unrelenting public pressure. As others have said, once you're inside the system, you can either stand up for what should be done and be sidelined, or you can shove aside your idealism in order to gain power before trying to make changes. More often than not, that idealism never returns.

I've thought about this more in the political realm, so it may not apply as cleanly in the justice system. We know that public pressure works in politics because they depend on voters to keep voting them in. The only way to stave off a slide into conformity is to hold people accountable for behaving the way they said they would during a campaign. It's not an easy answer since it requires a lot more public participation, but I think we have been lulled into believing that these institutions are self-maintaining once set up, and that is clearly not the case. A few honest and caring people just entering the justice system are going to have a hard time of it. Millions of people outside the system shouting loudly and unceasingly about its abuses have a better shot at causing changes.

Obligatory New Yorker cartoon: https://condenaststore.com/featured/he-feels-he-can-do-more-...

Out of curiosity, are there good examples of fundamental/systemic flaws -- where it's not that the system needs to be fixed, it's that a new system is needed -- being fixed by people working within the system? The success rate of violent, armed revolution is low, but it has produced some concrete successes (e.g., the existence of the US and more generally the fall of monarchy).

The US is a weird example of an armed revolution because it was a colonial revolt largely by people who already had power and were part of the colonial governments. The layer of government that was being scraped off was relatively thin, locally. For example, both Washington and Jefferson were in the Virginia House of Burgesses, and they're just the first two I googled to find out the details of their pre-Revolutionary political careers.

If the Confederacy had succeeded in seceding, it would have been a very similar revolution - the state governments on down would remain intact, with just a little bit at the top being rearranged. I'm not sure I could name a third, similar armed revolution off the top of my head; most of the ones I'm familiar with involve charismatic outsiders burning down the existing institutions and starting over fresh.

That's a good point - the leaders of the American Revolution were already "working within the system," they just also led a violent revolt. I think there's a good point to be made that that's one of the best ways to make sure that you can successfully burn the existing system down and put what you want in place.

That cartoon made my day.

The problem is that the bad behavior of these systems is emergent. For this strategy to work, your ability to disregard your own self interest (plus others like you) has to outweigh the self-interest of everyone else making up that system. From what I've seen, most people get tired, succumb to their own self-interest, yet continue telling themselves the altruistic narrative.

> A mentor of mine who used to work for a government agency once told me something that I hadn't really appreciated until recently. To paraphrase, sometimes the best way to change a system that is flawed is to work from within. It's harder, sure, since it takes time to get enough power to make effective change, but it's an idea nonetheless.

I believe this is formally called the "SLC Punk Maneuver"

Or, publicly shame them.

There's a reason judges impose gag orders which violate people's right to free speech. They're OK with violating peoples constitutional rights to serve their own self interests.

Who bells the cat?

How? Why? What? Are you serious? This doesn't sound reasonable in the least.

> I often think there should be a superhero archangel comic character that is a ruthless defender of justice. I don't understand the mentality of prosecutors, nor the judges, public defenders and others who are also complacent in an evil system.

A comic book character, you say? Let me quote V for Vendetta, Chapter Five, Versions, second half:

[Scene: Roof of the Old Bailey (building of the Central Criminal Court of England and Wales) in London. V stands beside the large statue of Madam Justice which adorns the top of its dome, and acts out a… conversation of sorts:]

Hello, dear lady.

A lovely evening, is it not?

Forgive me for intruding. Perhaps you were intending to take a stroll. Perhaps you were merely enjoying the view.

No matter. I thought that it was time we had a little chat, you and I.

Ahh… I was forgetting that we are not properly introduced.

I do not have a name. You can call me V.

Madam Justice… this is V.

V… this is Madam Justice.

Hello, madam justice.

“Good evening, V.”

There. Now we know each other. Actually, I’ve been a fan of yours for quite some time. Oh, I know what you’re thinking…

“The poor boy has a crush on me… an adolescent infatuation”

I beg your pardon, Madam. It isn’t like that at all.

I’ve long admired you… albeit only from a distance. I used to stare at you from the streets below when I was a child.

I’d say to my father, “Who is that lady?” and he’d say “That’s Madam Justice.” And I’d say “Isn’t she pretty.”

Please don’t think it was merely physical. I know you’re not that sort of girl. No, I loved you as a person. As an ideal.

That was a long time ago. I’m afraid there’s someone else now…

“What? V? For shame! You have betrayed me for some harlot, some vain and pouting hussy with painted lips and a knowing smile!”

I, Madam? I beg to differ! It was your infidelity that drove me to her arms!

Ah-ha! That surprised you, didn’t it? You thought I didn’t know about your little fling. But I do. I know everything!

Frankly, I wasn’t surprised when I found out. You always did have an eye for a man in uniform.

“Uniform? Why, I’m sure I don’t know what you’re talking about. It was always you, V. You were the only one…”

Liar! Slut! Whore! Deny that you let him have his way with you, him with his armbands and jackboots!

Well? Cat got your tongue?

I thought as much.

Very well. So you stand revealed at last. You are no longer my justice. You are his justice now. You have bedded another.

Well, two can play at that game!

“Sob! Choke! Wh-who is she, V? What is her name?”

Her name is Anarchy. And she has taught me more as a mistress than you ever did.

She has taught me that justice is meaningless without freedom. She is honest. She makes no promises and breaks none. Unlike you, Jezebel.

I used to wonder why you could never look me in the eye. Now I know.

So goodbye, dear lady. I would be saddened by our parting even now, save that you are no longer the woman that I once loved.

Here is a final gift. I leave it at your feet.

[V places on the ground a heart-shaped package wrapped with a bow, bows deeply, then leaves.]

[A large fiery explosion destroys the dome and the statue is toppled. V watches the fire from a distance.]

The flames of freedom. How lovely. How just. Ahh, my precious Anarchy…

“Oh beauty, ’til now I never knew thee.”

this is seriously fucked up

How can you still live there?

My first thought when I saw Broward County was, "Oh! He's in Florida. Now it makes sense." Which is really sad.

Why is this downvoted? Sounds like a really fucked up place.

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