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Comment by bhouston | Hacker News Reader

The large majority of ICOs I've read about are massive scams.

There is rarely any underlying value, but because of the hype you can still make tons of money via pure speculation, celebrity endorsements and other various types of pump/dump approaches.

It is way worse that OTC.

I think it is most self-aware scammers and the majority of the rest are naive. The only ones I've seen that are not truly scammers are those providing the platform for ICOs (e.g. Etherium, etc), because at least they are doing what they say they are doing.

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how do you make money via the schemes? if an ICO raises money, it has to attempt to build the product, or else, the people behind it are highly likely to suffer wire fraud charges. Meaning, you can't do an ICO, collect the money and buy a boat. You'll likely go to jail.

> likely to suffer wire fraud charges

One reason we require anyone raising money to disclose their names on e.g. a Form D is to enable efficient enforcement. With most ICOs, it is anyone's guess surrounding who it behind it. Investors are intentionally walking into difficult-to-enforce cases. Prosecutors will be selective; fraudsters know this.

ehhh, ICOs typically are quite explicit about the team behind it, with pictures, photos, names, etc. If you tried to do an ICO without clearly showing the team, it wouldn't collect much money

Sure, definitely impossible to put random person's picture and some generated name under it...

It's possible, but it doesn't seem to be happening in practice, if you look at ICOs that have raised a lot of money so far.

Are ICOs binding?

Can you claim failure after a best attempt at building the proposed product?

Can you build a shitty version of the product via outsourcing via Upwork to a third world country. And then claim surprise when it barely functions at all?

I think if you don't put forward a bona fide best effort, you are vulnerable to fraud charges. Yes, you can probably build a shitty version. But if it can be proved via any email or conversation or some other means that this was your intent, you will be vulnerable to fraud charges. You can't just steal the money you raised in an ICO

Or own a big stake in the outsourcing company hidden behind Panamanian shell corps...

Pass the money between shell companies via "outsourcing." That makes a lot of sense.

You can always accidentally forget to change your web server login from default admin:admin and get hacked.

That's just it. They don't collect money. They all exist in an ecosystem where all dealings are in other extra-legal coins.

yeah, but at some point somebody needs to withdraw real currency

Right, but it's all indirect. They don't take money from the investors. It's all happening off in cryptoland, where everything to date is pretty wild west. Now, maybe one day the courts rule on this and say "Look, we're not stupid. We know what you're really doing," but until that precedent is set, people at least believe they can get away with this. Governments have been mostly hands-off with crypto markets. Who knows how long that will last.

I understand, but my point is if you are going to steal the money you raised in an ICO, at some point you need to convert it to fiat currency to spend it, no? at that point you will be caught

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