Hacker News Reader

Comment by danaris | Hacker News Reader

> Beyond that though, what I despise is that AirBnB seems to reap all the profits and accept none of the blame.

I dunno; it seems to me that in these cases, the people who are really to blame are the "tenants" who are actually breaking both laws and rental agreements.

I'm puzzled as to why the property owners aren't suing them to recover all the money they lost. I mean, yeah, lawsuits cost money, too, but when you're talking a $20k fine, I would imagine there's at least a good chance of recovering more than you pay...and it didn't sound like any of the mentioned owners were attempting to do anything to the bad-faith tenants.

I totally agree that AirBnB has some serious legal issues looming in its future in most if not all of the jurisdictions it operates in, but I honestly don't see these particular issues as being representative of them.

View on HN

I'm puzzled as to why the property owners aren't suing them to recover all the money they lost. I mean, yeah, lawsuits cost money, too, but when you're talking a $20k fine, I would imagine there's at least a good chance of recovering more than you pay...and it didn't sound like any of the mentioned owners were attempting to do anything to the bad-faith tenants.

It sounds like you have never been a landlord. It's a five step process that takes at least two months just to evict someone in my landlord friendly state. I've heard it's worse in many other states. After that, it's possible to sue someone but that costs money and time and even after you do win it can take years to actually get your money and go through garnishment procedures once you track down their income. It's seldom worth the effort.

Yes most of the fault lies with AirBnb but being a distant landlord without a local property manager is crazy anyway. I sold my properties because the expense of getting a property manager or the hassle of managing it myself from across town wasn't worth it.

The lack of a property manager also struck me as crazy and I've never been a landlord. Plenty of rentals have gotten trashed and city fines accrued long before airbnb existed. Doesn't sound like this stuff happened overnight.

So, it seems that regulations governing the relationship between the landlord and tenants is the real problem here. If it was easier to recover money from the tenants, and kick them off the property, this would not be a problem.

Here's the deal: Tenants have rights because it's extremely easy for slumlords to take advantage of tenants - the power is completely in the landlord's hands without regulations. Poor tenant protections often leads to very serious negative externalities to society as a whole. History is filled with examples.

Unfortunately, tenants do take advantage of landlord-tenant laws sometimes, and that is terrible. Savvy swindlers can use the system to their advantage.

Being hard to recover money from individuals has absolutely nothing to do with landlord-tenant law and everything to do with the fact most individual people don't have tens of thousands of dollars sitting around to pay legal judgements. You'd have these sorts of issues anytime you sue someone else for anything. Best case scenario is that the person who you are suing has the proper liability insurance that will pay the judgement for them. (Liability is included with homeowners insurance and renters insurance but doesn't usually cover intentional actions)

Given a choice between protecting the rights of the tenants and protecting the rights of the landlord, I think we should be very careful about leaning on the side of the tenants and I'm saying that as a former landlord. The landlord may lose money but the tenant could be homeless and living in unsafe conditions if you veer too much in the landlord's favor.

As far as making it easier to recover money. Since it is just another civil case, it would take a complete overhaul of civil court.

I'm sure many of them will try to sue later on but that's not an overnight process, it can take years for a lawsuit to make it's way through court. Plus the property owners don't even fully know what their full losses are yet, it's way too soon, the dust hasn't settled. $20,000 is too much for small claims court so it's going to be a big production. Furthermore, these scumbags are the type of people to say "LOL" to a legal judgement instead of paying it. That means more time in court to get wage and bank account garnishments (if they are even working). If they don't have the $20,000+ or a well paying job or assets then the judgement is worth as much as the paper it is written on, you can't get blood from a stone. If you get a wage garnishment you may collect your $20,000 in 10 years if you're lucky.

(Ignoring the fact it's a several months process to even evict a tenant in many states in the first place.)

You can't let AirBnB off the hook here, they have the moral, if not legal, responsibility to prevent the most egregious abuses of their platform.

Because these tenants have no money. If they did, they'd likely be buying properties and listing them instead of doing these illegal sublets. The landlords in the area will likely drastically increase the rental deposit (unless it's limited by state or local law to some multiple of the monthly rent). That's the only real security against a tenant.

Exactly, the landlord will win in court but never collect from the tenant. The landlord should sue Airbnb directly in small claims court.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com