Comment by simonsquiff | Hacker News Reader

Comment by simonsquiff | Hacker News Reader

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Disagree about the tarpit comment - where I work about half the sales team came directly from the SE department- including the guy who has been top salesman in the company for 4 out of 5 years.

SE (or presales as many places call it) is a great job as you can move into almost any direction you want very easily. You are essentially the ultimate all rounder - you must have extensive product knowledge, great communications skills, good sales awareness, marketing skills, work with the development team and services too - so you can then go into any of these directions actually very easily. I worked in presales for about 6 years and personally moved into product management which I love. If I wanted to I could move into development but I don't had those skills - but if I found a developer with a presales background I would snap them up immediately - would be a killer skill set combo; or a perfect startup founder.

So yes, I completely agree that SE or presales is the perfect job to do to get exposure to nearly all functional areas of business. And that is ideal for 'founder training' or simply if you don't know where you want to end up so want to learn what each part of the business is like.

Probably about half the SE's I've known personally very explicitly wanted to move into sales, and not one of them (in maybe about 10 different companies) actually managed to make that move. The career path --- inside one company --- for SE's appears to be either VP/Sales Engineering or to Product Management (and thus into marketing).

I'm either wrong or your company is a (welcome) anomaly. I'm happy to be wrong.

It would be a real shame if where I work is an anomaly. SE to sales is a great move in that it makes for a great sale person, and as I say our top sales guy came from that transition (the one year he wasn't top, the guy who was was also previously from SE). This is mainly because they have extensive product knowledge. That is a rare thing in sales and immediately buys you a huge dose of credibility. Clients will then be more likely to believe the more salesy aspect of the process too (where people are more naturally sceptical).

Don't get me wrong, not every good SE will be good at sales - as you say there is a magic element to being great at sales - generally it is the non technical people who make this move. The more technical ones like me go down the product route.

Couldn't disagree more about the idea that product knowledge makes a good salesperson. Ari Gold can't act, and a top salesperson might barely know how to use the product. From what I've seen, effective salespeople:

* Are persistant and laser-focused on getting deals to close.

* Can turn off every part of their brain that would prevent or delay them from asking for the sale.

* Have a nose for the org chart and for figuring out who needs to be sold to how.

* Can accurately gauge where they are in the sales process for any prospect, engagement, or eval --- this rarely has anything to do with technology and usually has everything to do with budgeting, MBO's, and getting bakeoffs started.

* Take meetings and make visits relentlessly.

* Appear confident, like the guy-in-the-rated-R-movie.

Most of this isn't helped by product knowledge, and some of it is actively hindered by in-depth knowledge (for instance, by creating doubts about whether now's the right time to ask to close a deal with someone considering or evaluating).

I always sound like I know exactly what I'm talking about, and often I don't, so don't hesitate to tell me I'm wrong; I'll learn from it. My sense of it is that it's very hard for a tech person to be a good salesperson. Not impossible, but not statistically favored.

Completely agree with all of the above. And completely agree that a tech person is not the ideal person to go into sales. But a lot of presales people are not tech people - they are product people. And these people can make the transition to sales well.

What I'd add to your list above is passion. The best sales team are those that really believe in what they are selling. Of course, great sales people can sell anything even when it's rubbish - but for that you need a superstar sales person. For mere mortals passion is key - and that often comes from those who knew the product inside out- ie SE.

What I haven't mentioned is those that made the SE transition to sales very much left SE behind. They could do their own demos but they don't. They need to transition to all the stuff you have above. But if you can retain the product passion - and the marketing/benefits/product knowledge background, you have a good advantage.

"I always sound like I know exactly what I'm talking about, and often I don't, so don't hesitate to tell me I'm wrong;"

Ah, gosh. Now I need to retroactively reconsider all your posts that I took at face value. Well done :/

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