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Comment by Animats | Hacker News Reader

Here's a question. Do you belong to any organization which chooses its leaders democratically? That is, you get to vote, there's more than one candidate, and the incumbents and their designated successors sometimes get kicked out?

Do you belong to any organization which has member meetings in which members can vote and make decisions binding on the organization?

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Lots of clubs/community orgs are like this. The community soccer org for the city I grew up in had lots of turnover in the management due to voting.

The best sports and social clubs I've been a member of generally try to avoid too many political games although they are nominally democratic.

Club politics is generally tiresome, few people join a tennis club or hackerspace to play politics, they want to play tennis or make things.

"The trouble with socialism is that it takes up too many evenings." -Wilde

That's the problem with democracy. It's hard work.

One of the things that Tocqueville approved of in America is that everyone had some experience of government via jury duty. Which is compulsory (at least in principle, and in those days, probably in practice too).

I've often wondered if random juries should play a larger role in day-to-day government. Forcing people to work like this is a huge tax and not to be taken lightly, but taxing peoples attention rather than their wallets might actually be what we need.

Being on a jury is not an elevating experience.

I was on a jury deciding a driving while intoxicated case. The first vote was basically two of us against the rest of the jury. The reasons I heard justifying the guilty verdict votes were things like "Well, I'm a mom and I think drunk driving is terrible. That's why I think she is guilty".

Fortunately, there was one other educated person on the jury, and eventually, after discussing the actual facts of the case the rest of the jury understood and we acquitted the accused.

It was scary, during the selection process, the candidates mostly fell into two categories. Those looking forward to the $40 (as I remember it) allowance they gave us for each day of the trial and those that valued their time at more than $5/hour. The latter group all seemed to have some excuse for getting out of the trial. If it wasn't for the two of us on the jury, I believe the accused woman would have have been found guilty.

Important to remember that, despite jokes like these, Oscar Wilde remained a committed (if ideosyncratic) libertarian socialist.

> That's the problem with democracy. It's hard work.

I think that misses the point. The problem is not hard work, but rather hard work dictated by a preconceived belief that a one-size-fits-all collective solution is the best approach to all problems.

In my experience (have served in a few of these) it's hard enough to find one person willing serve in each organizational position. Contested elections are almost never seen.

It depends on the place.

Where I live the Little League is like the farm team for the local democratic machinery.

Do you belong to any organization which chooses its leaders democratically?

Yes. I belong to a university, the academic governance of which rests in the Senate. True, it's not a completely elected body -- almost 1/4 of its members are administrators holding ex officio seats -- but over 3/4 of the Senate is elected by Faculty, Students, and Convocation.

Many IEEE sub-groups have democratic elections. Most of my college organizations had elections and large turnover. My condo has elections, though it is difficult to find individuals who even want to run (and commit the necessary time.) The congregation I belong to had elections.

No. The only organization I belong to is my employer.

My home owners association is democratic, though often there aren't many candidates.

usa cycling

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