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Comment by tjr | Hacker News Reader

I feel that my life would be missing something important without a border collie. Other dogs I have had kind of existed alongside me; my border collie seems to integrate herself into everything I do.

Highly recommend Donald McCaig's book, Eminent Dogs, Dangerous Men: https://www.amazon.com/Eminent-Dogs-Dangerous-Men-Searching/...

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Can you give any examples, to help (non-Collie) dog owners get past 'My dog is integrated in everything I do; there's no way yours is more so than mine!'?

I walk mine without a leash and she almost never disobeys other than the occasional squirrel. They pick up on things very fast so it's very easy to get them quickly integrated into the small things in your life.

When I go shopping I'll leave all my windows completely down and she just hangs on the edge and waits, despite being able to jump out she never does. When we get back she helps carry bags back into the house.

They read humans incredibly well. Their constantly trying to predict your next move so they can take the appropriate action. so when we yell at my newphew to get away from the door the dog will physically get in his way. After a few times she just knows to do it.

Likewise she's great during parties to herd people into the right areas. I point at something she grabs it, I get angry at someone she starts growling, I don't want to be disturbed, she intercepts people getting close to my desk.

I'm sure many other breeds can get to a similar point but it might not be as easy or intuitive for them. I never tried especially hard to train my dog.

I agree with the sentiment. BC's are awesome dogs.

I think it's because they are so damn smart. It's the closest thing to having a human, except all the benefits of having a dog. My dog was insanely in-tune with my body language. I don't think I trained him very well but we naturally communicated very well. I could nod my head from across the dog park and he knew it was time to go home, stuff like that. If we were walking, I could glance my eyes in a certain direction and he knew to cross the street. (I usually didn't have him on a leash).

He made judgement calls. I would watch him do stuff he knew was wrong, and I refuse to believe it was an impulse. It was calculated. You could see it was conflicted but he seriously thought it through and concluded; eating raw chicken > ramifications. I could look in his eyes and _know_ what he was thinking.... Maybe that was all in my head but I don't think so.

That said, the key is having a very smart dog. It can exist outside of the BC breed but with BC's you have a high success rate of having an intelligent dog. We've had Labs too. Some similar to the BC, others good loving dogs but just dogs. We have a Yorkie now, she's an idiot.

I felt like this with my Australian Cattle Dog/Australian Kelpie mix. It's like she could read my mind. I think that herding breeds tend to be especially intelligent and in-tune dogs - they would have to be, to work with their owner and often other dogs to manoeuvre sometimes very large herds of bigger animals in just the right way.

It's very much like mind reading. Or like a language you have with the dog. My theory on herding dog intelligence is because they are reliant on their vision and their brains need to be better at processing all that vision requires equates to smarter dogs. My BC was so reliant on his sight, I have several memories of him not being able to find a treat or something because he didn't see where it landed or it went under something. He knew he saw me throw it, so he'd get kind of frantic an look all over the place. Eventually, he would realize he had a nose and could smell around for it.

I had a Catahoula that was crazy smart like this. Also a herding dog. I miss him all the time. :(

I guess you have to live with one for a while to really notice.

I didn't notice until I started walking with other dogs. Some of these were smart and eager to please as well, but it always felt different, somehow "clunky".

Border collies seem to be able to respond to intent instead of command.

It wasn't until I started paying closer attention to this mind reading capability that I figured out I, for example, slightly tilted my head before I indicated a direction to go in. That was seemingly enough to prime my dog.

With this ability to pick up on subconscious cues, it's not hard to start feeling your border collie is not just a companion, but is an extension of yourself.

Even though this sounds great, and something every dog owner would want, I wouldn't recommend having a Border Collie.

I feel some of these desirable traits lie very close to neurosis, which can manifest itself in various ways. Some harmless, some destructive.

Also, I feel because they are intelligent and highly active, they are more prone to psychological damage.

I'd say only get a border collie as a pet if you're willing to let a dog determine a significant part of your life for a long time. If you do so, however, you will have a "magic dog".

My initial statement refers to my own personal experience with border collies compared to my own personal experience with non-border collies. I really can't speak to anyone else's experience with their dogs, and I hope that everyone with a dog cherishes that relationship, regardless of what kind of dog it is.

So then what I have I found unique about border collies?

Some other posters have already shared about the border collie aptitude for communicating with and understanding people.

I think that personality traits of dogs are probably amplified by their lineage, by their breeding. Border collies (and other kinds of dogs as well) have a long history of functional utility. Many people still use these dogs to work farms and in other scenarios taking care of herds of animals. But whether if they are employed in that manner or not, it is still in their nature to assist people with work, with activities.

Border collies are described as being poor choices to have if you're not going to routinely engage them. That plausibly negative trait is probably the very same positive trait that makes them intimately interested in everything you do. If you do the laundry, your border collie is there watching, ready to help. If you clean the garage, your border collie is there watching, ready to help. If you are debugging C code, your border collie is there watching, ready to help.

Other dogs I have personally experienced seem totally fine to do things with you, but also totally fine to be off by themselves, or to do nothing at all.

I do get the impression that, to one degree or another, many dogs which excel at similar activities (herding, flyball, agility, etc.) may share personality traits with border collies.

Does all of that equate to a "better" dog? Absolutely not. In fact, I can readily imagine many people NOT finding border collie traits desirable. I've seen border collie breeders admonish would-be adopters to strongly consider other kinds of dogs unless they are quite certain that a border collie is what they want. And I would advise the same: please don't get a border collie if you're not sure.

I live in the suburbs with a good-sized yard about a block away from a large nature park. As much as I love the hustle & bustle of Boston and New York City, my dog would be miserable there.

> Other dogs I have personally experienced seem totally fine to do things with you, but also totally fine to be off by themselves, or to do nothing at all.

I'd like to highlight this for prospective dog owners who are reading this and are are thinking about Border Collies.

Border Collies are generally very fond of being with their owners. Some of them might get destructive when they feel abandoned, but even for those who can stay alone at home for some time: imagine what it feels like to sit in a featureless room (with no smartphone), having a highly active mind and simply having to wait...

Some dogs revel in lazing about whilst their human is out socialising or doing whatever. Some Border Collies can bear it, but in my experience, it's always detrimental. They are not convenience dogs.

My neighbors had a Collie, and the dog had paced around the fence perimeter so often there was a dirt trail. If you don't give them a task to do, they'll invent their own.

My old border collie would invent games and play them by herself if she was left to her own devices. Other breeds (and even others of the same breed) not so much.

It makes me wonder if the ability experience boredom, and to undertake activities to alleviate boredom, is part and parcel of higher level intelligence. Most lower animals don't have sufficient time aside from basic survival activities to allow it?

I've always wanted a border collie, but until I live on a farm or have a large house with a family I just can't justify getting one. They require a lot more stimulation than most dogs.

Having owned a border collie I can say they are (in general) not the best dogs to have around young kids. They tend to want to heard the little ones and may sometimes nip at ankles if order is not maintained. To an extent this behavior can be influenced by how much work the dog is getting, Genetics too - believe it or not some have a greatly reduced herding instinct. Also, a farm is not essential but daily work/activity is - flyball/Frisbee agility etc work well to.

I was in Scotland in the 90's driving around in the north looking at castles. I saw a really interesting one on a farm, so I drove past the gate and stopped, to find someone to ask if it was OK if I drove to the castle (ruins of one, actually). They were fine with it. On the way out, their Border Collie stopped us just before the gate and ran circles around us. You see, we were in a very small, white car. Perhaps we looked like a cow. My passenger got out and distracted the dog while I drove through the gate.

My wife grew up with a border collie. Her grandparents kept chickens, fluffy white chickens, and to the dog they were tiny sheep. So the dog spent hours herding the chickens, kept them in a group. Of course chickens are not sheep so they would bolt as soon as there was an opening, so the poor dog couldn't rest for a second. After several hours they literally had to drag him inside so he wouldn't die of exhaustion.

Crazy smart dog, allegedly he would escape their fence and go hitch hiking along the highway. They didn't know where he was escaping to until a friend told them she saw him on the road and he jumped in her car.

I agree and disagree, they are perfect around young kids. We got ours 2 years ago when my kids were 5, 3 and 3. She did want to nip at their heels and herd them, for about a week, she trained out of this so easily it was ridiculous. And she had a herding instinct, her parents were working sheepdogs and she was the last of her littermates to be collected, most were gone at 8 weeks, we collected her at 12 weeks, so there were times she was out with her parents. She still wants to run after a diesel engine (the tractors on the farm were diesel) as a result of this. She is amazing with children, she listens to and obeys commands, protective without being aggressive, loves attention, playing and cuddles. You are right that they need stimulation and exercise but so does every dog. We used to have a husky and they didnt need the same level of stimulation but they needed twice (or more) the exercise a collie does.

I grew up with a Shetland Sheepdog, and my parents still have one now. They're smart herding dogs, but much smaller than a Border Collie, and they're fine with less space.

I feel the same way about my german shepherd.

German shepherds are great.

I may sound crazy, but I really believe my GSD has some sense of language and is not just barking instinctively.

His "I want to pee", "I want to eat", and "I need to poop" barks are different enough that I can reliably understand him.

When he is outside in the yard and wants to get back in, he calls me with a short guttural bark, whereas with my wife he uses a long whiny call. When we are both home, the type of call seems to correlate pretty well with the person he wants to see. It's like he's given us names.

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