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Comment by koolba | Hacker News Reader

Why is it unfair for the person in front of you to recline her seat? She paid for that seat just like you.

Now I'm not saying she shouldn't have brought it back up when you asked. I know I would have. But there's no fairness doctrine here.

It'd be unfair if you are the sole arbiter of who gets to recline their seat.

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It's an American cultural phenomenon. I've always been intrigued by the origin of it. At some point someone even invented and sold a device to prevent the person in front of you to recline their seat:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knee_Defender

I guess at some point someone popularized the notion that people reclining in front of you is a form of disrespect and it stuck in people's minds. I'm over 6ft tall and I hate coach seats as much as anyone (and living in South America, flying is usually an endeavor taking over 8 hours a pop) but I have never felt that the person reclining in front of me was wronging me in any way.

It might have to do with the usual brevity of domestic flights within the US (also leading to the colorful concept of a "redeye" flight).

I don't know if purely American. Flying domestically in Japan, people will ask if it is OK before reclining their seats.

Same on the Shinkansen, but then that’s not surprisingly given typical Japanese levels of politeness.

Is the person behind the potential recliner realistically able to say "no," or is that too impolite?

You shouldn't be directing your ire at your other passengers. The responsibility for this lies squarely with the airline, which knows full well about mean femur lengths and mean hip widths, and consciously chooses seat configurations guaranteed to be uncomfortable for a large fraction of their passengers, in order to squeeze more profit out of each flight.

If people make a fuss, and demand laws or government regulation for minimum dimensions of passenger spaces, that will establish a minimum floor on flight prices, but it will also ensure that everyone can be accommodated equally. If it's a race to the bottom anyway, it might be a good idea to build a floor at a reasonable height above rock bottom. Short and narrow people can then resent taller, fatter people for raising their fares instead of tall people getting angry about reclining seats.

If there was ever an argumentum ad absurdum regarding the wisdom of where airline seating has gone over recent decades, it is the existence of that device.

Pretty sure they are saying that no one should get the right to recline their seats when the seats have gotten small enough that someone that's 6'4" (I am) has to sit with knees pushed into the seat in front already before the person in front reclines...

Right, but the fault is still entirely with the airline, not the passenger who reclines their seat.

Most people know how tall they are. If someone who is 6'4" buys a ticket on an aeroplane, knowing that they can't fit in the space guaranteed to them, then it doesn't seem reasonable to put 100% of the blame on the airline.

As United says, "We know you have a choice of airlines when you fly".

What if they don't know they can't fit in the space guaranteed to them? To know this you need to know the pitch used for that particular aircraft, and how that is affected by a seat reclining in front of you. Do you expect people to look this up before buying a flight ticket?

I'm 6'6" and haven't flown in nearly two decades - I have no idea if I'm going to fit into a seat at the moment, and have no idea how to check. I'm facing my first work flight next month and a honeymoon in January, and don't know what to do to make sure I'll have enough room. I know there's seat length available online, but who knows if I'll measure correctly and end up wedged into a seat I can't possibly sit into.

A reasonably fit 6' - 6'4" person with average proportions will fit comfortably in a "Plus" seat. I'd imagine 6'6" wouldn't be too different.

Make sure it's a "Plus" seat though. I guarantee a regular seat will be an exercise in pure misery for the duration of the flight.

If I were in the top 1% by height (which 6'4" is), then I'd probably have encountered this issue before, and know ahead of time of the risk.

It would be silly for someone in this situation not to look.this up before buying a flight (using seatguru or similar). Just like checking the length of the sleeves is a good idea when buying a shirt online.

While you can check seat pitch with seatguru, a lot of airlines don't allow you to choose seats at the time of booking, and some don't allow booking of extra-legroom economy seats at all. Others charge prohibitively expensive fees for booking the better seats, and sometimes the good seats just happen to be completely taken.

It's also worth noting that there's just not a lot of variety in seat pitch. It's not like I can book a flight with Long and Tall airlines!

Yes, it's difficult, and I wish the airlines provided better information and booking tools.

But my point still stands: if someone _knows_ they are too big for most economy seats, and still buys a ticket which doesn't guarantee a suitable seat (because they don't want to pay the price, or because they don't want to change their schedule to a day when such a seat is available, or because they choose an airline which doesn't let them book seats at all) then it's not fair to put 100% of the blame on the airline.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like there to be a wider variety of seat sizes in economy (maybe smaller folks like me could get a cheaper ticket for a smaller seat!).

"I just wish that, if they're gonna shrink the seats, they would prevent them from reclining."

Which is the root of what the original comment was asking for. The rest was anecdotal of a bad experience.

Then it's not unfair to bump them seat when using the restroom. I paid for a certain amount of space, which includes the ability to get up from the seat.

There's no way I can get up from the seat without the person/people between me and the aisle getting up. Is this what you mean? Also I agree you should get up periodically, it's not healthy to stay in those terrible cramped seats for so long.

I've never had someone sitting next to me, who wasn't asleep, not move for me to exit. I have had people with their seat back not take it up when asked

Yes, my argument breaks down pretty quickly, good point.

You didn't pay for any space. You paid for the use of a seat for that particular flight.

I'm not sure how you're arguing I don't have the ability to use the restroom. If I did pay for the ability to use the restroom, then I can bump someone prevent me from exiting my seat if they won't free me from restraints.

Also, you do not have a right to recline, if there is a baby carrier behind you, you will be unable to.

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