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Comment by LeifCarrotson | Hacker News Reader

> Then, you're going to have to deal with boredom and cabin fever. Mars seems cool in the abstract--"explore another world!"--but its just a big, completely dead desert. I'm betting the novelty of it will wear of in an hour (tops) of landing there.

Have you ever been backpacking in a desert, mountains, wilderness? It continues to be amazing for days. Anything that new and different definitely induces novelty more than an hour tops.

Also, have you seen the data returned by the rovers? There's stuff to explore and discover everywhere. Mars may have less biome variation (on a scale that can be sensed by unprotected humans, and for whatever the 'bio' of 'biome' means on a lifeless world) than Earth, but it's not featureless.

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This strikes me as the usual motivated denial that you get from Mars enthusiasts. You're not going to "go exploring" forever. At some point, it's just more rocks.

A better analogy than backpacking would be permanently living underwater at great depth. To leave your underwater habitat, you have to scuba dive or get into a submarine. You never get an unmediated experience of the outside world. Your skin touches the inside of your suit. You smell only the air from your breathing apparatus and your own breath. Forever.

I'd be way more impressed with Mars enthusiasts if they'd admit that this is a problem and then describe how they'll overcome it, rather than just insisting that it all really is going to be one big breathless adventure. It's like mentioning boredom on Mars is a taboo that upsets frail escapists.

I'd be more impressed with Mars pessimists if they'd admit that it's just not really the kind of thing that interests them rather than insisting that it's going to be a terrible nightmare for anyone.

The GP said the novelty will wear off in one hour, tops. Sorry, to some people, that's a ridiculous statement. Pointing out that it would probably last longer than that is not insisting that it's going to be one big breathless adventure.

People have lived in solitude and isolation before. People have lived on the space station for extended periods of time. There are people that don't really care to come home to their comfortable home and family every night. I'm pretty sure there are some people who would not be miserable living on Mars.

Common among computer geeks: "I don't like this thing, and I'm perfectly rational, therefore nobody else would either."

But I insist I'm not like that, and I'm perfectly rational, therefore nobody else is either...

... wait a minute... DOH!

You wouldn't like it at all. I would probably be done after a couple weeks.

But I'm sure some people would love to explore places where no human has ever been before for the rest of their lives.

There is also the work of building a new society, settling in new immigrants, improving infrastructure in your settlement etc, that has to be fun for the right kind of person.

So I'm sure that a small percentage of the populations would genuinely like living on Mars. Maybe he biggest problem is predicting who those people are before you ship out :)

> To leave your underwater habitat, you have to scuba dive or get into a submarine. You never get an unmediated experience of the outside world. Your skin touches the inside of your suit. You smell only the air from your breathing apparatus and your own breath. Forever.

This sounds close to the neck beard trope, of people living in their parents basement and never seeing sunlight. Could we inadvertently be adapting to a Martian or Lunar environment?

No. My adaptations are definitely intentional. All that sandbox-world gaming is training, for when I will be stuck inside a ~70 m^3 volume with several other people, simultaneously mining for vital resources and additional living volume using a remotely-operated robot that is not quite ready for fully autonomous operation yet.

It will totally be worth lifting 250kg of human adipose tissue into LEO, I swear. If the food supply fails, you'll need someone that can survive without it until the next available harvest. Not that I weigh that much now, but with some intensively sedentary neckbearding, I can probably get that high by the time we're ready to launch.

I'm not typically a fan of unanchored humor on HN as Reddit has more than enough to go around, but I commend you on turning "neckbeard" into a verb.

I love it! Thanks for the great laugh.

gp did say "days", did not say "forever".

> Have you ever been backpacking in a desert, mountains, wilderness?

To be outdoors in the vast wilderness teaming with life, breathing fresh air, being able to wander off in any direction you feel like does have a certain amount of appeal. If you went to Mars, though, you would never be able to do this again in your life. You'd never be able to breath fresh air again. You'd never be able to stand outside on your own again - you'd only be able to do it from the inside of a constricting suit. You'd never be able to just go off and wander when you feel like - even if you could use rovers and suits for fun, you'd have to get the approval of your fellow travelers before going out. You'd never be able to see wild plants and animals again.

Why do you think this way?

Colonists on Mars would have to build almost everything. But is there anything stopping them from building parks and forests? It will be tremendously difficult but they absolutely will do it, it's human nature. What they miss, they'll build. They'll spend much of the first years building up the rudiments of industry. Methane and Oxygen production will be there from day one. They'll start by mining water ice to allow them to produce arbitrary amounts of methane, oxygen, water, Hydrogen, and carbon monoxide. They'll use that to kickstart other industrial infrastructure like production of iron/steel, glass, concrete, plastic, etc. All of which can begin in only a handful of years past the initial colonization and get going with a minimal amount of capital equipment. They'll move on to expanding their habitat, building greenhouses, growing food. And from there they will increase the carrying capacity of their habitat(s) and the capabilities of their industrial base continually. Then it's just a matter of time until they have the ability to build parks and forests, things they'll want to get started on sooner rather than later.

They won't have the redwoods or the amazon rainforest but they'll have lakes to swim in and trees to walk under.

> Have you ever been backpacking in a desert, mountains, wilderness?

I'm guessing that being on Mars isn't even remotely similar to being out in the harshest Earth environment.

It presumably will, however be somewhat easier than being on the space station, which people have managed for over a year with relatively few adverse effects.

Of course, these are the best of the best, specifically selected because they are focused and driven, but we aren't going to be sending just anyone to mars either.

Its difficult to fathom quite how much there is to do in space. Astronauts aren't sitting around, but constantly performing maintenance and fielding science requests from all the world's top researchers.

Consider additionally people living about a nuclear submarine have similar freedoms, and there are many that willingly get back on board even when their mandated time is up because its not a terrible job. Some things the human psyche can work around when you have a constant supply of mental stimulation and a fulfilling life.

> It continues to be amazing for days.

For days!

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