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Comment by wonder_er | Hacker News Reader

I can't quite believe the argument that Facebook is Big Brother, because the first suggestion the author suggests is "stop using Facebook".

In 1984, I believe the most compelling attribute of "Big Brother" was that he/it could not be willfully turned off.

So, for this to be an appropriate analogy, Facebook would need to be able to legally compel you to have the app on your phone, and if you illegally removed the app/ignored FB, you could be thrown into jail.

Facebook is huge, but all the big tech companies cannot actually imprison you.

Seems like a useful distinction.

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Would you not consider shadow profiles a form of imprisonment? Perhaps not quite as strong as voluntarily giving heaps of information, but still a rich source of data on people who do not use Facebook.

About a month ago I started to receive Facebook notifications from people that I know. I am not on Facebook.

How did you receive these notifications? Couldn't it be friends emailing/inviting you to join?

Nope it's XYZ added a picture or read XYZ's new comment

If you are not on Facebook, how do you get the notifications?

By email

How did they get your email and your name?

Most likely from his friends contact lists, which Facebook imported when they installed the app on their phone.

Sure, it's possible for a few people and the digital nomads, but try telling your teenage daughter don't use Facebook products. Heck, it's even difficult for me because of events and stuff, but for the majority of people, it has become a utility. Especially young people are sucked into it. And if not, you still get tracked everywhere on the web.

It's like telling you to dig your own internet cables. Negotiate peering and backbone if you want uncensored internet, no data caps, and no throttling. What's the matter, the internet is opt-in, have a problem? It's possible for few rich people just like living without digital products for few old farts.

I have two teenage sons and neither they nor their friends use Facebook. It's Snapchat mostly from what I gather.

You can't opt out completely because you are tracked anyway. They track your family, co-workers and so on

Exactly. Due to the network effect you're on FB whether you like it or not, because those connected to you will talk about you via FB. That means that at a certain level of adoption, everyone in the world is effectively on FB.

What you say about BigBrother not bein able to be willfully turned off sounds very true to me.

What certainly can't be turned off willfully now is the Internet; not FaceBook or Google. So the question is : is the Internet BigBrother. The idea of internet or even its hardware infrastructure is certainly not BigBrother. Now, the combined power of GG, FB and others certainly is a problem. And I'm sure there are people with the capability to combine their powers. Now, the questionis who can exert sufficient power over GG and FB ? I can think of the POTUS but wall, I'm sure it's not that simple. But intenet is certainly the machine of global surveillance...

But everybody knows that.

The question for me is : will internet inevitably becomes the monster we're fearing ? Personally I don't know, so I'm careful. But the fact is that we're becoming a society based on metrics and that scares me because it de-humanize us...

Having just finished rereading 1984, I say the most compelling attribute was how normalized Big Brother was. His (?) omnipotence was gladly accepted, to the point of (next to) no one noticing. I would say that an accurate reflection of most people's perception of FB, Google, etc.

Comparing to Big Brother is a bit of an embellishment, but due to network effects and some game theory designed to addict, it's not so easy for many people to just "stop using facebook."

You think you can turn off FB? Guess you haven't heard of shadow profiles.

Wasn't the CIA an early investor in FB? Yeah, give it some time ;)

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