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Comment by arnarbi | Hacker News Reader

Opposing stealing is now rooting for corporations?

Many/most forms of hacking could be construed as stealing if you squint hard enough. What was this community founded around again?

Do you think "disruption" is a peaceful, happy, 100% beneficial process for everyone involved? Is Uber stealing by taking business from incumbents that play by a different (regulated) rulebook?

This 'community' (to the extent that all the users of this site can be clubbed into one) was definitely not formed on any founding principle which would legitimize theft.

Not that sneaking into airport lounges is some huge theft, but acting like it's completely okay isn't cool either.

I agree, it's not 100% okay. I wouldn't feel bad doing it though. I also wouldn't do it in a situation where my presence hurts another paying customer (i.e. full lounge).

My personal ethics apply to how my actions impact other living things. I don't lose sleep worrying if I've wronged an entity created solely for the purpose of maximizing shareholder value.

I'm honestly surprised how many people don't agree with that. To each their own I suppose.

Edit: You're totally right about the futility of trying to shove all of us into any one descriptive bucket though. That was a mistake.

>I'm honestly surprised how many people don't agree with that. To each their own I suppose.

You're advocating for stealing from businesses. When enough people like you do this, it results in either higher prices for honest people or the loss of a service entirely.

> I'm honestly surprised how many people don't agree with that.

At some level, most people think everyone else thinks and behaves similarly to them, and are surprised when they find out that they don't. That's why projection is a thing.

I'm curious, what do you think about public services? E.g. is it ok to ride the bus without paying if you get away with it? What if it only takes a a fake QR code to do so?

Because in the end, even big evil mega-corporations have human stakeholders. For some of them that's their livelyhood. Not everyone is in it out of greed.

I really wish people would stop slapping the "theft" label on things that aren't. It's intellectual laziness that just cheapens the discussion.

Sitting in an airport lounge you shouldn't have access to isn't stealing. Piracy isn't stealing. Using ad blockers on a site that supports itself through ads isn't stealing.

They call it "theft" for the defensible reason that it maps to traditional theft in (what they regard as) the most important dimensions. Your disagreement with the validity of the (IMHO, obvious) mapping doesn't make it lazy.

Theft is wrong for well-known reasons. Most of those same reasons apply to these situations.

> Sitting in an airport lounge you shouldn't have access to isn't stealing.

What do you think of random people occupying your house while you are gone out to work or grocery store? Is that okay too?

> Using ad blockers on a site that supports itself through ads isn't stealing.

I agree with this because browsers are "user agents" not "website agents".

Airport lounges offer all kinds of drinks and snacks that I'm certain this person is not ignoring. They are also using the facilities and causing more congestion, making it less pleasant for the paying customers, so they are stealing the value that the lounge offers from other customers.

It may be classed as theft of services.

If curious, consult a qualified legal representative in the appropriate jurisdiction.

What about the food and drink that are offered in these lounges?

You may have a point.

So opposing trespass is now rooting for corporations?

Well, @eunoia seems to think so. I happen to disagree. But at least now we can discuss it without the emotional baggage of calling someone a thief. For whatever reason, people get worked up over that label more than "trespasser" or "squatter" or "moocher" ;)

I'm afraid we all might be wrong/right on some level. I.e.:

1. Getting into an area you don't have access to: Trespassing.

2. Tricking the security they have in place: Fraud.

3. Taking snacks from the lounge-area: Stealing.

> Sitting in an airport lounge you shouldn't have access to isn't stealing

You are consuming a resource that's finite. You are literally taking value from the provider without asking or paying for it. What do you propose we call this?

Physical space in a building is a limited resource. "IP" isn't.

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