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Comment by mseebach | Hacker News Reader

By that logic, shoplifting from sufficiently large stores is ok. Not stealing bread to feed your family, just randomly grabbing stuff because you feel like it (and it isn't locked down).

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Apparently it's ok to create fake barcodes.

Stealing physical items for fun != exploiting ineptitude to have a less terrible layover. It's also harder to even begin to measure the economic cost.

I think it's more akin to buying terrible cheap seats to a show and moving into a better yet unoccupied section once it starts.

The internet has always seemed to have a lot more moralists than the real world.

Actually no, the internet is just where many people realize that the things they think are OK sometimes aren't, because on the internet they're telling the whole world what sketchy stuff they do, instead of just their buddies that they do sketchy stuff with. You're much more likely to interact with people you wouldn't normally cross paths with on the internet, and the audience is much wider.

Tangentially, I really hate buying good seats and getting to a show to find some cheapo sitting in them because they're proactively hoping no one shows up. If you want good seats, buy good seats. Lots of people in the real world feel that way, and respecting other people's wishes (even, and especially, when you think it's unreasonable and can't relate) is a basic part of being a grownup.

Your first point is spot on and interesting. I would also argue that we all have different flaws and it's easy to judge others for theirs while pretending ours are somehow less bad. For example the most judgemental people I know are also some of the "worst" people I know. Their morality matrix is just incredibly biased towards looking favorably upon themselves vs others.

As for the tangent, if you can't be bothered to show up for a show by the time it starts you can at least be bothered to say "Hey, these are my seats." I've been on both sides of that interaction many times. Every time it's been resolved immediately and amicably.

That might be too much human interaction though. Maybe we should get further away from humans talking to each other and invent another app to solve this "problem".

It sounds like you have no problem using services/goods you didn't pay for. I don't think you're going to have any productive discussion trying to convince other people that your moral position is correct because it directly results in a terrible society that cannot operate on trust at all.

You've been casting a lot of stones in the comments.

If you've really never torrented a song, used a friend's Netflix account, snuck onto the floor of a concert, took an extra travel bottle of shampoo from a hotel maid's cart etc. etc. etc... Then I truly commend you. The world needs more people like you.

But I highly doubt that's the case. Meanwhile I'll be the monster over here creating a terrible society by using some free wifi and a place to charge my laptop to get some work done halfway through a long trip.

>But I highly doubt that's the case.

No, I stopped doing that kind of stuff around my second year of college after some economics and ethics classes. I objectively evaluated these types of actions and realized in nearly every case where I hand-waved away with "nobody will notice because its trivial", I was basically justifying theft of small amounts of resources by claiming it was negligible.

>Meanwhile I'll be the monster over here creating a terrible society by using some free wifi and a place to charge my laptop to get some work done halfway through a long trip.

I can tell you're trying to be sarcastic, but when people behave like you it does make it miserable for everyone else. You increase the costs for honest people or at a minimum deprive them of some of the value they would have received if you weren't there (more seating, shorter bathroom queues, more available outlets, less congested wifi).

Also, in most clubs it's not free wifi, it's wifi provided for people legitimately allowed access to the club. You are just stealing it.

Maybe, as long as you don't touch any of the food or drink. How likely is that, though?

Did you know most airlines have absolutely awful inventory control over the supplies on their planes? If you make friends with a flight attendant they usually have the leeway to bring you just about anything you want for free. Is that stealing too?

Pro tip: Bring candy or snacks for flight attendants on long flights, they appreciate it and may even reciprocate in kind.

It's not stealing when they give it to you willingly without any fraud.

Are you that fuzzy on the concept of "stealing" that you don't see the difference here?

Airlines have fired staff for eating a sandwich or drinking a coke taken from the plane e en if it was going to be thrown away. It's the same concept as most food outlets. They have no discretion yo give away free things to people who give them candy.

Anecdotally, it's rampant. To the point where crews will take bags(!) of booze and certain snacks off planes for layovers / gifts etc.

And I didn't mean you should bring candy for the FA's solely in expectation of getting something in return. You should really do it because they work surprisingly stressful jobs with absurd hours. They often have to deal with the worst kind of people and could really use a metaphorical hug every once in a while.

Source: Dated a FA for a long time. Know many others.

Actually it is stealing, you're just not the one doing it.

I bet the airlines allow flight attendants to use their discretion here.

Forging a ticket is just not equivalent to asking nicely if you can have something.

>I think it's more akin to buying terrible cheap seats to a show and moving into a better yet unoccupied section once it starts.

And GP thinks otherwise.

You are merely stating an opinion.

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