Hacker News Reader

Comment by tptacek | Hacker News Reader

You think the FBI is going to interdict a computer criminal before they spend a week in Las Vegas associating with computer security professionals, any of whom could be criminal co-conspirators?†

That would be exceptionally nice of them, but also extremely poor investigative practice.

I will say, though, as one of the many people in my field that is bone-tired of schlepping out to the worst place in the United States every damn year for these events, any other location in the world would be fine for me, and I endorse the actual suggestion you're making.

† (Yes, obviously, I know virtually nobody who attends Defcon is a criminal).

View on HN

You forgot to mention having the opportunities to electronically surveil his activities while he's physically located in the United States, to attempt to possibly catch him soliciting a plant, bragging to a stripper while drunk, or attempt to catch him in some other questionable activities that they could use as the basis of an arrest or further warrants without having to play their hand as to what they think he's actually guilty of (and therefore being able to possibly turn him as an informant).

There's a brazillion reasons not to arrest someone the minute you think you've got them.

"Basis of an arrest"? They had an arrest warrant. The complaint I'm addressing is "why did they not arrest him sooner???".

I'm agreeing with you (go figure?).

The point I was making RE: "basis of an arrest" is that if you wait for him to do something stupid, like get arrested by local LEO for drunk and disorderly, that gives you cover to approach him in an interrogation and threaten him with prosecution over the malware... unless he agrees to be a witness/informant. Because he's in with local LEO for something innocuous, there's cover.

In the end, they indict him for the malware, which pretty much ruins him from that perspective. Or, perhaps, they already figured he wasn't worth using and it's not above a US Attorney to go after someone well known in order to further their own career...

So I take it you're not a fan of Vegas?

I have friends who live there and don't want to talk shit about the real city of Las Vegas where people actually live, but the part of Las Vegas that Black Hat and Defcon drag us to every year is probably the worst place in the country.

Piggybacking on this to +1 the sentiment as another "security person": I literally do not go to Black Hat or Defcon because I don't like Vegas.

It's a minor networking hit for me, but a total win otherwise (and I can make up by networking elsewhere - I cannot get time spent in Vegas back).

Whats wrong with Vegas for large conferences? Airport is close by and has daily flights to it from most major cities, hotel rooms are cheap and decent quality. Can you name a better city to have a conference for 20,000 people? Only thing i wish it had was tougher smoking laws. You aren't forced to gamble or drink or partake in whatever debauchery that goes down in vegas.

Is it because of the gambling, drinking, or what? I don't gamble but I usually have a decent time visiting good restaurants and maybe seeing a show when I go to DEFCON.

The gambling doesn't do much for me, but I'm a drinker and a social smoker. It's hard to put my finger on what's so grating about the Vegas strip, but something about it puts my teeth on edge. It's a really fake and touristy place, and it's not fake and touristy in a pleasant way.

For me it's the incessant marketing of extremely generic entertainment experiences, amidst a backdrop of sexual exploitation. And half of the marketing reeks of bait and switch.

Plus the fact that it works on a plurality of tourists coming through makes it sad.

I leave Vegas with less faith in humanity than I had when I came. It's been a few years though.

Hunter S. Thompson had it right: try to cram as many drugs into your body as possible, seek out the ghosts of America's dead dreams and you may come out with some semblance of spirit intact.

I call it "the Times Square" effect. Every major city has one. Hollywood Boulevard in LA. Fisherman's Wharf in SF. The eponymous Times Square in NY. Etc. I don't know if the Vegas Strip deserves the title for "absolute worse", but it is certainly conceivable.

It may or may not be the absolute worst in absolute terms, but in relative terms ... take away the strip and Vegas as anyone knows it ceases to exist.

The drinking, the gambling, the strip clubs, the whole debauchery-to-the-max environment of Sin City.

Plus it's in the middle of a desert, so options are pretty limited.

Indoor smoking, 110F weather, and universally crappy, over-priced food.

Okay, so @arthulia and @hueving, is it "good restaurants" or "crappy, over-priced food"? Never been there, but could somewhat imagine either scenario. Actually I could imagine multiple possibilities for each:

"good restaurants": (1) lots of top-tier cooks go there because money and it's cheap because Vegas, or (2) lots of off-strip places with good chefs trying to make it big.

"crappy, overpriced food": (1) Wolfgang Puck etc, or (2) Even off-strip food is bad and expensive because they can't afford water.

So in reality which is it?

Both. There are a lot of chains and mid-grade restaurants where you will pay an arm and a leg for mediocre food.

However, there are also some of the best buffets in the world there (if you're into that). There are also some awesome high-end restaurants: https://www.tripsavvy.com/michelin-guide-rated-restaurants-l...

Because Vegas is a massive tourist destination where you are guaranteed to have a deep market of people eating out every day of the week, it attracts tons of restaurants so you do need to do a little research. Picking a random one will likely get you overpriced 'meh'.

There are lots of high-end restaurants, because every celebrity chef in America seems to open an outpost there. But if you're familiar with the originals, the Vegas versions tend to be overpriced tourist versions with limited menus. There are some great restaurants to be sure, but it's kind of a dice roll.

We've gone off the strip for sushi, Korean bbq, Thai, and Ethiopian and had good luck; I don't know enough about greater Las Vegas to judge it. But the strip is bad.

I think we should move it to Cuba.

>(Yes, obviously, I know virtually nobody who attends Defcon is a criminal).

Very particular definition of a word criminal I guess. Kevin Mitnick, James Clapper, veew, plenty of criminals attend/panel at defcon.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com