Thing I've found with embedded, is the pay is generally not as good as other work, and it's generally not as flexible (no remote). If you can do either generic webdev, or other things, those often look like better options.
Personally, I couldn't stand doing generic webdev -- I'd rather spend eight hours a day poking myself in the eye with a sharp stick. I've always lived on the EE/software boundary. I suppose staring at logic analyzer traces is some other person's sharp stick, but it works for me.
It doesn't really cost that much and I wouldn't see it as a limiting factor.
But it's kind of moot because the work isn't really available.
That's great that you'd rather poke yourself in the eye with a sharp stick than do web dev. But I have skilled embedded dev friends writing php because the alternative is working at a supermarket (they're not location flexible).
- soldering iron and supplies
- "helping hands"
- misc parts/supplies like wire, breadboards, switches, LEDs etc.
- batteries, USB chargers, couple of PC power supplies for power supply
- using a simple 2x1 .1 inch header convention with red and black wires for plugging in DC power
Desk is a basic folding table from Staples.
I would like to figure out where to find a better table/desk (I assume with outlets/etc.) and what other things I don't know about you'd recommend.
While I don't own one, the TS100 [0] is supposed to be an amazing soldering iron. [1] As a plus, the hardware and software are open source. [2]
> "helping hands"
Realacc six arm third hand. [3] It's fantastic for the price.
> misc parts/supplies like wire, breadboards, switches, LEDs etc.
AliExpress? YMMV for quality though
> batteries, USB chargers, couple of PC power supplies for power supply
Can't recommend batteries or USB chargers from China, too much counterfeit junk. For PC power supplies, Seasonic is a well priced, quality brand. There are a bunch of ATX power switches available (e.g. AntMiner) on eBay for a few dollars.
[0] https://www.banggood.com/MINI-TS100-Digital-OLED-Programable...
[1] http://hackaday.com/2017/07/24/review-ts100-soldering-iron/
[2] https://github.com/Ralim/ts100
[3] https://www.banggood.com/Realacc-Strange-Third-Hand-Six-Arm-...
Soldering iron: I like the Hakko FX-888D. $90-110 or so. They have better if you can afford it, but that one's very good. The FX-951 is the next step up, and can take micro-soldering handpieces and has the quick-change tips. It's about $240.
Get a chisel tip, eg Hakko T18-S3, a bevel tip (T18-S6), and a bent-conical tip (T18-BR02). The conical tip is perfect for lots of general purpose work, you can use the fine point or the sides of the bend. The back of the bend can be used for drag soldering, the inside of the bend makes soldering wires together easy. The chisel tip is good for soldering things with more thermal mass (PCB-mount heatsinks) and the bevel tip is pretty necessary for drag soldering on QFP and similar surface mount packages.
Hot air station: Probably something cheap from china, there aren't any particularly affordable name-brand ones that I know of. Weller has the WHA900 for around $600.
Magnification: Get at least one of the magnifying headsets ($8-10 on Amazon) and a desk magnifier with LED ring light. Better option is an AmScope stereo microscope, such as the SM-4NTP and a ring light for it like the LED-144W-ZK. $480 total.
PCB vise: I have an Aven 17010, it works pretty well. MUCH better than trying to hold a board in the helping hands.
Flux: Get liquid flux with a syringe. Amtech is the best, but there is a lot of counterfeit stuff out there, and Amtech doesn't sell it directly (bulk orders only). https://mailin.repair/amtech-nc-559-v2-30-cc-16160.html sells the real flux.
Tweezers. Any ESD safe set.
Fume extractor: VERY important for health. You do NOT want to be breathing in flux fumes. A high-volume HIPAA air purifier on the desk works, ($150 or so) or a dedicated device like the Hakko FA430 is even better ($625). Oscilloscope: Rigol DS1054-Z. 50MHz, hackable to 100MHz bandwidth easily. $400. There's no better cheap scope at the moment (IMO).
Function generator: Siglent SDG805. $270. Needed to give you analog signal inputs. Part of the big-3 of 'scope, power supply, and function gen.
Power supply: Get a linear supply. The Tekpower TP3005D-3 is $200, and is an actual linear power supply. The knobs are coarse adjust only (it's analog), I replaced the control potentiometers with 10-turn versions which substantially improved the accuracy of the output. There's also the Siglent SPD3303X-E ($340) if you want a digital panel version. You definitely need arbitrary +- voltages for lots of very basic circuits, PC power supplies are very limiting and too noisy if you do any sensitive analog design.
Multimeter: Get a safe one (HRC fuses, proper transient voltage suppression, etc.) Can't go wrong with Fluke, of course, but Extech, Brymen, and some others have cheap and capable handheld meters. $100-300, depending on brand. Be sure it has a micro-amp range! The really cheap ones don't, and you WILL need it if designing embedded stuff.
Logic Analyzer: Get a LogicPort. pctestinstruments.com. They're $390, for a 34-channel 500MHz device, very nice for the money. Needed if doing much digital work. (Keysight's 34-channel standalone analyzer is $12165 base price. 5GHz, but still, twelve grand...)
Spectrum Analyzer: If you're doing RF work (radio design), you'll need one. Otherwise skip it. The Siglent SSA3021X with tracking generator add-on is $1764 (pretty cheap) and quite capable (9kHz to 2GHz). It's also hackable / software upgradeable into the 3.5GHz model. The Rigol DSA815-TG is $1550, but significantly worse (smaller display, worse resolution bandwidth, max 1.5GHz, etc).
Be sure to get a GFCI outlet and a GFCI adapter or two. The oscilloscope, function gen, spectrum analyzer, etc, all are mains earth referenced, and should each have their own GFCI plug. If you accidentally connect the ground lead of any of them to something other than ground the GFCI will trip and prevent the ground traces from being blown up inside the device. They're about $20 each, well worth it IMO.
You might want an anti-static mat and wrist-strap.
Get a bunch of small drawers, eg https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LDH3JC. Print labels for them, use them to store resistors, capacitors, and other types. You can fit two values of component in each drawer (though they don't come with enough dividers :/). You want at least 96 drawers for resistors and 32 for capacitors assuming you're buying 1% or 5% resistors and 10-20% capacitors (pretty normal). I bought a kit of resistors (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017L9GKGK) and (https://www.amazon.com/Joe-Knows-Electronics-Value-Capacitor...) for capacitors (Joe Knows Electronics kits are good for stocking up, they have more of the most common components in their kits.)
Get some desoldering wick and a solder sucker too. Also some tip tinner, and/or a sal ammoniac block. Make sure you have a roll of kapton tape to hold parts down while you solder them (it survives high temperatures). If you'll be doing a lot of surface mount you'll want a reflow oven and solder paste.
EDIT: One tip I forgot, very important: When you buy parts (on DigiKey/Mouser or similar) make sure you buy extras. At least the number needed for the first volume discount or 10, whichever you can afford. 3x the number needed for the project at the minimum. You WILL drop parts, burn them out, and otherwise damage them. It's much easier if you already have spares, don't have to wait for shipping, and don't have to pay for shipping. This will also help you develop a parts library, as you do more projects you'll be likely to re-use common parts and already have many left over from past work.
The most important thing for me is the scope because I develop bare metal firmware (includes drivers etc) for both SoCs and microcontrollers. I use a Rigol 100MHz scope and I really like it. Of course I could not go for the higher speed scopes because of the budget.
Also for some of the instruments I have found that Tek and Keysight provides refurbished stuff for much lesser prices. Have you tried getting any refurbished stuff and what is your opinion on it?
For the logic analyzer I found it a waste as a separate instrument. I would prefer to have the analyzer in the scope itself as all in one so that I can do analysis on only one screen.
The advantage of the PC-based logic analyzer is in the ease of use, mostly in setup. Also in the number of channels, the ones built into scopes tend to be 16 channels. The two-screen thing is a bit of an issue, it would be better if Rigol's PC software for controlling the scope was halfway decent. Tek's software is much better.
Hot Air Station: YIHUA 650W. Avoid fakes, they can be dangerous!
Multimeter: Extech EX330 DMM
Soldering iron: if you can't get the Hakko, the Ersa RDS80 is decent.
In Germany, the Tekpower TP3005D-3 is called Komerci QJ3005EIII and can be bought on Amazon. Its the same device, only ~150€.
>> Wish there was a save feature, I just saved this to a text file.
There is: select/click timestamp/"go to" the post[1] - click "favourite". Will be listed under favourite posts in your profile.
Or just get to [1] and bookmark in browser.
[1] eg for your reply, go to the url: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14853064
- Digilent Analog Discovery 2: Low-end 30MHz oscilloscope+function generator+logic analyzer controlled via USB. $279 (or $179 with student discount) I think of it as 'swiss army knife' of electronics: it's not as good as a real oscilloscope, function generator, or logic analyzer, but it does the basics of all those roles and fits in your pocket. http://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-...
- Xprotolab Plain: Same general idea as the Analog Discovery, but only $20 and therefore an order of magnitude crappier. Only 20kHz bandwidth. Suitable for an absolute beginner on a tight budget. http://www.gabotronics.com/oscilloscopes/xprotolab-plain.htm
- Extech EX330 multimeter: It's a multimeter, the most basic instrument you'll need. $53 on Amazon. I recommend getting some alligator clip probes; I find them much more useful than the pointy probes it comes with. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EX0AE4
A "real" scope is a workhorse that lasts forever with the features and the convenience you don't get from those cheaper options. You also want real scope probes. In my area I see someone selling a TDS220 for $200 which would be a good buy. Also an older 4 channel 100MHz Analog scope...
Quality multi-meters are also workhorses.
I haven't gone far enough in electronics to run into limitations of the above equipment; I figure I'll upgrade when I need to.
- I'd get a used good scope. Personal preference would be a digital Tektronix. A logic analyzer can probably wait.
- A digital multimeter. My preference is Fluke. You'll want a buzzing continuity tester in whatever you get.
- You might want to invest/experiment in some method for home manufacturing of PCBs. Breadboards are a pain ;) We used to do wire-wrap back in the day, probably no one does that any more :)
- I find that you can do a lot with two hands. You figure out all sorts of clever way to hold your work, wires and the soldering iron ;)
- Heat shrink tubing.
- Crimping tool(s) and various connectors that are convenient for what you're working on. It's a bit of an investment but you want to connect stuff easily and reliably.
- One of those magnifiers on an arm with a light built in...
I disagree about home made pcbs. Its just too much fuss and mess, and there are a lot of places that can give you cheap 4 or 5 day boards in small Quantities. AP Circuits usually is a good deal for my hobby stuff, but I always price out others, too.
One word for PCB beginners: DO NOT obsess over making every board perfect. It wont be. For one-off hobby quantites an x-acto knife and some wire will fix most basic mistakes in a few minutes. PCB design is like golf, low scores are better, holes in one are rare. Too often beginners fear fabbing a board because they think it is cast in stone. Mistakes just arent that costly at low volume.
Including holding the soldering iron from the wrong side, as it happened to me once.
(Personally, I found the low-level hardware/OS/algorithms courses fascinating in my CS degree, but went into webdev because it paid more and gave me more career options, and then some data science because the combination of UI skills + data wrangling skills means I can actually build useful things on my own. No regrets on my career path, but if I get lucky and cash out on a startup, I think I'd love to do embedded & hardware stuff.)
Until then informatics was a specialization from the EE degree at that university.
Most of those EE engineers ended up doing coding work, because a tiny country like Portugal couldn't absorve so much electronics related work.
...
>> "Yes, the pay isn't as good for some reason"
Don't these seem related to anyone?
I'm not an expert on business or anything, but maybe the reason companies are having trouble finding people to work embedded jobs is they aren't willing to pay them enough?
>> "Perhaps embedded developers as a group are poor negotiators."
I don't know of a better negotiation tactic than just going to do something else you can also do that pays better (a lot of people I know with deep embedded skills are doing higher level mobile app work these days for exactly this reason) because the industry has some weird preconceived notion of what you are worth...? "Fuck you, pay me".
My biggest problem with web development is the users. I've made a few internal websites to manage some our stuff at work, which only has to deal with a small number of users (100 or so) who are all technologically competent engineers, and I still find it ass annoying, dealing with all the weird ways they use my very simple webpages. Sure hardware can have its quirks but they're not like people.
Yeah, I miss having a scope on my desk. But my pay is nice enough that I can afford my own EE workbench at home, should I want one.
I much prefer lower level programming, preferably programming the hardware I designed. I know the hardware limitations, side effects, and overall the how-to behind the hardware that allows the software to do its thing. Most software engineers I know have no want to understand the underlying mechanics (they're certainly capable of it - they just don't care).
I'm currently trapped in a "devops full stack" with much of the tooling as NIH. My routine day is a mix of keeping the trains rolling on time, and getting horrid stuff like " my $database_root_password = <password> " out of SVN...
I keep applying to positions in my wider local area (Midwest). But so far, only headhunters that want to waste my time with endless "pre-interviews". Tomorrow, it's back to tickets, high-ho!
Another lead that I see is Chinese SoC manufacturers who would like to have Linux/Android up. I see a lot of the produce their hardware but have very little support software. The problem is I do not have any idea how to approach them let alone convince them to spend money on development.
The big companies medical and automotive) in Germany generally give work to their vendors but again they give it to the German companies and very rarely to outsiders. The contracts are very lucrative as I have seen just 1 person companies there providing very average embedded software components. Again very hard to crack the market unless you know someone there.
And the tooling is WAY behind where cloud and mobile is at.
Turns out to have been a decent career. In the end, programming is programming, and I have enjoyed most of it. There are always problems to be solved.
But I'll probably go the web-dev route too.
Web dev/backend dev for the last 10 years.
I often wonder who, in the long run, would be the ones to push the boundaries when you can get a very good pay doing some generic software engineering job (similarly I have friends go several years into a STEM phd to drop and go into CS masters program)