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Comment by huac | Hacker News Reader

> Leasing space in subway stations to shops might detract from the “historic” character of the US’s barbarous public transit systems, but the revenues could fund needed improvements, such as ventilation, without the need for debt or higher passenger fares.

All the public transit systems I've rode in Europe and Asia have lots of infrastructure (especially stores) built into their train stations. I found them to be a welcome convenience rather than a distraction - and the many travelers in the stores indicates that others did too.

If private shops in the subway is the price we pay for efficient public transit, then please, may I have some more?

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Makes sense to have some shops, a quick bite on the way through vs having to go look for a shop when you get topside. Lowering costs, improving the facilities, and providing those quick resources while on the move would help. People might lose some of their excuses and start using the public transport systems more. Which feeds the businesses, which pay for the upgrades. Becomes a self-feeding circle. I like.

NYC already has shops in some subway entrances, as well as newsstands on a tiny minority of subway platforms.

That said, I believe the shops in the entrances are actually leased from private landlords who constructed those entrances when building new highrises.

Are they rare in the US? Every stop I use regularly (in Chicago) has shops in it. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head that don't are ones where there isn't space or where businesses have left on their own volition.

Do they really have shops in them or are they accessible through a building that has shops?

They are in the same building. Generally it's a single dunkin donuts or something similar. The building is generally owned by the CTA however.

I'm from Chicago, and I was a bit surprised when I went to NYC for the first time and saw stores on the opposite side of the turnstile. I know this is quite common throughout the world, but it is relatively uncommon in the United States.

As far as I know there are not any stores in Chicago that can only be accessed by paying a fare.

Does that make a difference to the thought about providing rental income? I'd think that in order to maximize the value of the space you'd want to make it as appealing to renters as possible, which would mean making it more available.

To answer the question of the 5 stops I use most 4 of them have shops. None of them are on the platforms, but the platforms are very small. All 4 of those that have shops have been completely remodeled in the last 15 years to make the shops more appealing or to add shops that didn't exist.

NYC has them. They're in some stations in Boston, but many just don't have the space for it. IIRC, they're non-existant in the Bay Area.

There are a couple shops on the mezzanine levels of the BART stations on Market Street.

Civic center station has an open air drug market, but I'm not sure the city is getting much in the way of revenue from that.

Funnily enough, a bunch of the stations I saw in Korea and Japan had 'public market' areas, where they rent out stalls to local/smaller merchants.

The majority of the L stops I use in Chicago don't have shops (mostly blue line, some red line and brown line).

Which ones do you use that has shops?

The 5 stops I use most are (in order of use):

- 53rd Street Metra (bicycle/coffee shop)

- Randolph Street Metra Station (~8 or 9 shops of various kinds)

- Merchandise Mart Brown Line (attached to a mall)

- Clark & Lake CTA in the Loop (entered via 2 different shopping centers or the street)

- Randolph/Wabash CTA in the Loop. No shopping at this one as it is an old, small elevated stop. That said, in the little space it does have available there is vending so it has been commercialized.

The red/blue lines are good examples of what I mean by not having space. Where would you put shops that would generate enough revenue for the work of putting them in to be valuable? The 95th street station used to have a newstand in it but doesn't anymore, I assume because they couldn't find tenants.

There are many shops in the red line. They are only open during the day/rush hour. Some of them used to be good (like a mini c-store or a Dunkin donuts) but often they replace them with something stupid like a popcorn stand, or closed them all together.

Obviously there is also the pedway at Lake St, and merchmart, etc but that's not really what we're talking about.

I'm sure someone will show up with a counterexample, but DC doesn't have any that I've ever seen. I feel like they'd make a killing if they just stepped up their vending machine game to be more like Japan, though eating and drinking on the metro is supposed to be banned in DC, so I guess that would send mixed messages.

I don't think DC has enough space to put any stores there, aside from one of those gaudy souvenir-tents.

And it most certainly doesn't make any sense placing those stores on stations that are outside of the Beltway (there's simply not enough demand there, and stations that are farther out are almost deserted by the standards of EU cities)

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