The problem is that your remarks are not coming across like "men and women are both adults and both need to work at solving this." You are coming across like "Well, individual men have zero responsibility at all for this problem, even when they are obviously being incredibly aggressive and predatory."
If you don't mean to come across that way, you will need to work on how you talk about such things.
Best.
> If you don't mean to come across that way, you will need to work on how you talk about such things.
Yeah, this isn't what I mean (I'm not a native english speaker, but I don't think I wrote it entirely wrong, but your emphasis is not mine's). Your previous reply nailed it,
> When ordinary people stop doing things like that, then predators have a lot less latitude for pursuing their ugly goals. When you reduce their latitude enough, you may find that in order to get laid at all, they need to behave something like decent human beings instead of overentitled rapey bastards.
But is exactly this my point: It is up to the women to correct/validate this behavior, when men starting to change their way. Because if in the long term this strategy doesn't work better, most of the men will drop it and start to approach women in the way they see it working. And this is my point when I say that it is not my (or individuals) fault. In an anthropological analysis, this is the same reason women evolved to rely in men for security and better chances of survival: it worked. Now we have a much better social security structure in the world so naturally the usefulness of men for women reached a new low in most countries :P
And it sounds really, really ugly, like you just don't want to be bothered to behave better yourself.
I talk all the time about the fact that it is a societal problem and we need to address it at that level. But addressing it at that level involves figuring out what individual's can do differently. Because society is merely an aggregate of a lot of individuals. It does not exist separately on its own or something. It is the collective result of many individual choices. You change it in part by coming up with mental models for effective actions that individuals can take.
No, I've been saying that it is our problem all the time. You keep saying that I'm trying to free men off their stupid behavior and what I'm saying is that men's stupid behavior are frequently awarded by women. Change this and you change that.
I get that in an atmosphere where most people are saying "men need to change" it is easy to fall into the bad habit of saying "women need to change" when maybe you really mean "women ALSO need to change." But you are not saying "women also need to change." You have made multiple posts here, and your position is very consistently that it is 100% the responsibility of women.
If you don't mean that, now would be a good time to just say "well, my English is not so good and I must not be explaining myself well" and drop it, rather than continuing to insist I am wrong, because it is only serving to dig your grave deeper.
Yeah, it became crystal clear that women also need to change.