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Comment by hellofunk | Hacker News Reader

> and will replace Android as soon as a viable alternative is presented

One alternative that's been around for a while you might like if you want to continue using smart mobile devices is an operating system made by Apple (not Google), called iOS (used to be called iPhone OS but it can now be used on tablets too even some music players like iPods have it).

Just throwing that out there, they have a lot of similar features, but with iOS you don't need to get involved with Google. Check it out, it's definitely a viable alternative.

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The OP seems concerned about privacy. Apple certainly has a lot of PR activity promoting privacy of their products.

But at the same time it seems so many websites, apps, companies, ISPs, etc. are hoping to track their users much more than before. Perhaps even sell profiles on their users to advertisers or other tech companies.

Apple also seems to be a fairly secretive company. Their products have historically felt more "closed" than Android. Isn't Apple violating user privacy in iOS just like Android? And if they aren't, shouldn't they be, from a business perspective?

The OP can upgrade from iOS whenever the appropriately Free/Libre mobile operating system is viable.

iOS, despite being a very closed ecosystem, is much more privacy-conscious. In addition to being much more resistant to law enforcement and criminal adversaries, it submits far less information about the user to Apple by default.

To be fair to the Android team, almost all of the user tracking and advertisement targeting can be disabled in the system and account preferences. Sure, Google could disregard the user preferences, but that might open up liability for fraud.

> Isn't Apple violating user privacy in iOS just like Android?

Doesn't seem that way. Consider the flak Apple took for standing up for users' rights with the whole Bernardino incident.

And here's a specific example I read about a while ago. When you're using Google Maps, your device is directly identifiable in Google's servers all the time by a unique identification token. When using Apple Maps, your iPhone generates a new token every ~15 minutes and uses that to report position. There is no connection between any two tokens other than location proximity, making it much more difficult to track users directly from Apple's end. (I'd give a source but I'm on mobile, but I think I read about it on Apple's website around a year ago.)

> And if they aren't, shouldn't they be, from a business perspective?

Well, if their business was selling customer data then yeah. But their business is selling cool devices with cool software. Yes, collecting all that data would make some things a lot easier — ever wonder why Siri doesn't work as well as Google Assistant for a lot of people? — but Apple appears to care about privacy and security enough that they don't engage in these tactics. And... they seem to be doing okay despite it, so I don't think they mind the hit to their piggy banks.

>ever wonder why Siri doesn't work as well as Google Assistant for a lot of people?

You have some valid points on your post, but praising the inferiority of software based on perceived limitations of increased security focus seems like Apple cult-of-personality type stuff.

It's an established fact that Apple has traditionally refused to just use all of their user recordings as training data, and is willing to accept worse voice recognition as a result.

I'm not sure I exactly follow, but anyway it's easy to find comments online from people who've worked at Apple recently who talk about how this is actually a logistical problem. Apple can't just throw data at their issues until things work like e.g. Google can, specifically because they do not collect as much data in the first place.

> as much

Ah, so they're the privacy option because they only collect a lot of data, not gobs and gobs of data?

Yes?

You can disable Siri if you want.

You don't need to use location-based software.

Basically everything on an iPhone that collects data doesn't need to be used, and when it does collect data it's because it is usually needed.

They're the privacy option because the data they collect is heavily restricted. Consider my earlier example of the navigation identification tokens — Apple has a similar "amount" of data, but it's significantly less useful in its raw form than Google's. But Apple makes the choice to collect data in that way because it helps protect users' privacy.

Thats not what they claim.

>We don’t build a profile based on your email content or web browsing habits to sell to advertisers. We don’t “monetize” the information you store on your iPhone or in iCloud. And we don’t read your email or your messages to get information to market to you.

https://www.apple.com/privacy/

Apple takes your money up front so they don't need to violate user privacy for business reasons.

Apple also sucks at using user data to make better products compared to Google, so it's perfect for them to claim concern for privacy as a business strategy.

Refusing to do something isn't the same as being bad at doing something.

Counterpoint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd

I second this. It's definitely a niche product from a little known indie developer, but iOS is definitely worth using in my books.

They seem to have pretty good design chops as well ;)

I think it's safe to assume lettergram is aware of iOS, has considered it, and has decided it's not a viable alternative for their needs.

I think it's also safe to assume the comment you're replying to is absolutely drenched in sarcasm

iOS is better for privacy (Apple is more inept at cloud stuff than Google) but much, much worse for freedom. I don't want a device that I'll have to get Apple's permission to install stuff on.

Right now, which do you value more?

It's entirely possible that, in the near future, a competitor will show up that won't make you choose between the two. However, that time is not now.

Freedom, that's why I run Android. I have the freedom of disabling the tracking.

Lineage without GApps gives you both, at the cost of some convenience.

Without GApps / Play Services, I'm wondering just how helpful an Android device would be for the typical techy on the go.

Sure, I could text, check email, use open source maps, check my account balances, and play some simple games.

But I've learned both from my BlackBerry which had Android emulation and Kindle Tablet, both of which can't use apps that depend on Google's APIs, a lot of pretty important apps won't work: any maps that show traffic or turn by turn directions, Uber / Lyft, almost all popular social apps like Twitter, Facebook, most popular games, payment apps, dating apps, streaming music, etc.

That's a big loss. Not sure I want to go back to the days of my old Nokia smart phone with Symbian apps or even BlackBerry QNX which had a decent browser.

Is this sarcasm? (honest question)

I suppose it is, taking into account the GP said there's no "viable alternative" to Android... but iOS exists, and it's not only a viable alternative, but much better than Android in lots of ways.

>>it's not only a viable alternative, but much better than Android in lots of ways.<<

That is kind of a matter of individual taste. Many people are on the other side, and by the look of it, OP too. He/She is on android.

Viable doesn't mean "subjectively better"

He wasn't referring to the "viable" portion. He was commenting on: "[...] but much better than Android in lots of ways."

Indeed, saying something like "much better" is indeed subjective as we don't all agree to it and it's not based on objective facts.

The GP said they "will replace Android as soon as a viable alternative is presented." This strongly implies iOS is not a viable alternative generally, rather than for them specifically. It read like a cheap potshot at iOS.

I read it more as deadpan comedy.

The only sad things I use more Google products on my iPhone than Apple ones, notably Google Photos and Chrome. I'd never switch though as I have never had a pleasant experience using Android.

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