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Comment by aytekin | Hacker News Reader

Here is why: Half of the population wants to be part of the Western world. They believe in secularity and many other Western ideals. That's how Turkey became a close ally to US, part of NATO and almost became part of EU. Because this half had the control and the other half previously mostly lived in villages and wasn't interested in power. Then, as they moved to cities and as they became influential, the other half of the population took over the country and started applying middle eastern and Islamic ideals instead. And, they have so much ambition and hatred in them. They are ready to replace the democratic republic with a new Ottoman Empire that will probably be similar to Iran.

Expect West to kick out Turkey from NATO or Turkey to leave NATO soon since the islamists see west as evil.

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> Expect West to kick out Turkey from NATO or Turkey to leave NATO soon since the islamists see west as evil.

I don't think so. Unfortunately, ethics often play a less than significant role in international affairs like this. Just look at the dealings the Western world and the US in particular have with a backwards, medieval state like Saudi-Arabia that more or less openly supports Islamic extremism.

Turkey is a strategically important region, not least because with Bosphorus it guards access to the Black Sea. From a geopolitical point of view the "West" couldn't possibly want Turkey to align with another bloc or another powerful country.

Clearly, NATO has nothing to do with values as opposed to maybe EU, (that's also disputable). GP's naive assumption of "believing in secularity and many other Western ideal" is kind of a post-cold war, remain in the minds of a lot of Turkish elite to join the EU. But apparently that won't happen any time soon, or maybe never.

You do realize that without Western support current Saudi government will fall victim to internal opposition, which is much more fundamentalist and is not significantly different from ISIS, right?

I'd say that'd remain to be seen. ISIS essentially is a doomsday cult. A fundamentalist state like that isn't sustainable in the long run.

Make no mistake though, the Western world doesn't prop up the Saudi government out of moral reasons. They do this because of Saudi-Arabia's significance to the oil economy. The House of Saud in exchange complies with the economic - and to some extent - political demands of the Western world.

Weird, kinda like the US.

> Weird, kinda like the US.

Which part of aytekin (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14780685) 's message reminds you of the US? Whatever else one may say of the current state of US politics, this:

> the other half of the population took over the country and started applying middle eastern and Islamic ideals instead. … the islamists see west as evil.

doesn't sound like it. (To be fair, I didn't quote:

> They believe in secularity and many other Western ideals.

and

> they have so much ambition and hatred in them.

(different 'they'), which maybe fit some groups, according to your leanings.)

Replace "the west" with "globalism" and "islamic" with "evangelical", and you'll see a comparable sentiment in the US.

Which part of aytekin's message reminds you of the US?

For me, it was the notion of those in villages / rural areas having increasing interest in power, as they feel increasingly abandoned & their values ignored. It reminded me of the US Midwest becoming more interested in politics, leading to Trump's win over Clinton:

“You saw turnout spike in more rural counties,” Alexander said. “If you take a look at a lot of the larger cities you did see depressed turnout there. [1]

Microsoft made a similar observation when announcing their rural high speed wireless internet intiative:

"That message was underscored in last year's presidential election, when rural voters expressed dissatisfaction and anger over being left out of economic and technological growth, Microsoft President and Chief Legal Officer Brad Smith said. "It's fair to say the election raised our level of consciousness, as it did for a great many people in the country."" [2]

[1] http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/voter-turnout-2016-elect...

[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-11/microsoft...

Spot on. I guess the backclash to Globalization is still progressing (despite Macron). I listened to most of the GOP candidates running for US presidency during debates on FOX, CNN and other channels. I was surprised how similar they sounded to : especially Trump, Carson, Cruz, somewhat Rubio.

Rise of the Rednecks

...or the downfall of the Bluenecks? While some living outside of metropolis can rightly be called 'redneck' and others have taken to the title as a badge of honour, most fall in neither category. Just like most living inside the ant heap would resent being called a blueneck, really.

In the US, all these things are strongly correlated: Living in non-rural areas; anti-globalist sentiment; religiosity; support for Christianity in schools and government, including as guiding principles for domestic law and international policies; distrust of higher education; and lower amounts of travel.

The analogies are there.

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