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Comment by pentae | Hacker News Reader

I live in SE Asia (Thailand) and although I'm fascinated by China, my experience with Chinese tourists has turned me off visiting the mainland completely.

They are more often than not incredibly loud, rude and lack almost all basic human courtesy we take for granted in the west and even in asian countries like Thailand. They will push past you in queues, yell mandarin loudly in your face to others behind you, stand in the middle of the street blocking traffic, play videos on their phone speaker on full volume without using headphones - I could go on and on and on.

There's absolutely zero consideration for anyone but themselves and are, by a wide margin, the rudest tourists i've ever encountered anywhere.

I can't help but wonder if it's just the type Chinese tourists that visit Thailand and mainland China would be different, but its just not a risk i'm willing to take.

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Your observation is correct. As an ethnic Chinese I'm sorry and apologize for that. Many Chinese and government know that's true. As result, all Chinese mobile phone users will receive a text message from Chinese embassies when they are landed to foreign countries even inside airplane (at least US and Canada ) reminding them(mobile phone carrier) to respect local custom and culture, especially don't speak aloud in public areas.

There are many reasons for that. A obvious one is quick economic growth makes many less educated normal people can afford previously luxury tourism. But there are more profound reasons. Unfortunately, researches and studies of personality statistics of vary large group of people(for example, behavior of an ethnic group) are very difficult and most importantly: they are politically incorrect, considered harmful and forbidden, as well as the conclusions will not be accepted by public. So most people on the earth don't know the real reasons behind that but only have fake explanations that modern human mind can accept.

BTW off the topic. with same understanding, I predicted early in 2003 that Bush's goal of Iraq war would fail FOR SURE by observation of similarity of statistical (i.e. population) mindsets between middle east people and Chinese people.

The good news is things are changing slowly towards the good direction. The habit and behavior of Chinese people, especially young generation and educated people are more and more closer to that of Japanese, Hongkonger, Taiwan people. But it will take long long time, maybe generations.

> Unfortunately, researches and studies of personality statistics of vary large group of people(for example, behavior of an ethnic group) are very difficult and most importantly: they are politically incorrect, considered harmful and forbidden, as well as the conclusions will not be accepted by public.

Do you mean politically incorrect in China? Otherwise, I'd just call this kind of study Anthropology (of some form).

In my experience, most Westerners (well, moreso under the age of 40) seem to believe there is literally no such thing as culture, almost as if it is a completely imaginary concept.

What's your experience that gives you such an impression?

Because, if we acknowledge that more than one culture exists, then we will attempt to compare them. However, as everyone knows, all peoples are equal in all ways - any other conclusion is literally fascist and deserving of public shaming. Thus there is no culture because there are no differences.

Wait, so as an American I read reports of schools in France and how they feed the children better, more nutritious food all while teaching them some table manners. My appreciation of this "better" culture of food and dining makes me a fascist? You're making some really sweeping and baseless assertions.

Halt, fascist! You require reeducation.

Of course my comment is making sweeping and baseless assumptions. It is my attempt to sarcastically express the zeitgeist.

Consider me fooled! Poe's Law strikes again...

Not quite, there's some complexity involved here that was left out. For starters, it is only Westerners, and predominantly younger people, who believe such obviously silly things. Secondly, it is possible for Western cultures to be objectively worse, but(!) this in no means implies that there are differences in cultures. If that seems illogical to you, it means you just need more reeducation. It can often be helpful to feel about it, rather than think about it, thinking can fill your head with all sorts of crazy ideas.

Ah yes reeducation, I forgot I'm just some idiotic, unenlightened American.

There's quite a lot of sarcasm in the above replies, in case you (or others!) missed it; GP and others are laughing at those that claim these sorts of thoughts are fascist or dangerous, not actually saying you fall afoul of it

I seriously cannot tell anymore.

Interaction (or observances of interactions) with people, discussion of matters that occur in the news, etc. The notion that there are statistically significant norms of behavior within cultures is considered outright false, full stop. The reasoning? That is racist and therefore it is false. Whenever race/gender/religion is involved in any discussion, the correct answer is "everyone is the same", you don't even have to look at the science, that is a waste of time because no other answer is possible.

Not arguing with your experience, but offering something else to consider: these days when people bring up "culture" it sounds like what they really want to talk about is race. The term has a long history of being used to put a wig on various forms of racism: "Race XYZ obviously isn't inherently lazy, but it's part of their culture..."

Even assuming you don't mean culture as a proxy for race or religion (which are obviously related but not the same as culture), times being what they are when you hear "culture" from a stranger you don't usually think "oh interesting, an anthropologist!". Instead it's usually time to buckle up for a broad generalization about a very large group of people the speaker is no more familiar with than anyone else.

> The term has a long history of being used to put a wig on various forms of racism: "Race XYZ obviously isn't inherently lazy, but it's part of their culture..."

Because that's objective reality. Cultures do have statistically common behaviors/traditions/norms, some "good", some "bad" - that is literally a fundamental part of the very definition of culture. Acknowledging this obvious fact in a reasonable conversation is no more wrong than saying it's still not ok to drink and drive despite the fact that most impaired drivers do not cause any harm.

Mischaracterizing the simple acknowledgement of patterns of behavior as a claim that all members of a group always act that way, and no improvement is possible because the culture is fundamentally flawed, is incredibly disingenuous. Anyone who makes this claim should be ashamed of themselves, as it is attitudes like this that contribute to perpetuating disunity between cultures who will always be distinct. Cultural uniqueness is usually a good thing (and should be preserved), but not always.

False. Young Americans not only acknowledge different cultures, they even do things like use them in debates about ways to improve our healthcare, for example. Our education system even discusses Native Americans as pertaining to US history, which includes differing customs...

Saying that [a group of] people think all people, globally, are the same is really ridiculous. Maybe online it might seem that way but people in real life don’t.

> Saying that [a group of] people think all people, globally, are the same is really ridiculous.

I'm always curious whether these mistakes are intentional or not. I said "most". I was being partially hyperbolic (I honestly don't know if it's half or not, it depends on what conversation you observe really).

> they even do things like use them in debates about ways to improve our healthcare, for example

That's another commonality you will in public discussions: depending on the topic of conversation, cultures/genders are sometimes considered unique and sometimes not, by the same person. Their opinion changes depending on the topic of discussion. You see it online, you see it in the news, you see it in debates (online and real world).

If a politically correct person just came back from an overseas holiday, they will speak of the "richness" of the culture there, how they do some things in a different and often better way. (I agree with this perspective.)

The very same person, on the topic of immigration, will insist in complete seriousness, that there is no noteworthy cultural difference. Oh but also, we absolutely must have more immigration, because it increases diversity (despite the people not actually being different), which is good.

And I suppose it's necessary for me to explicitly point out: not all people do this, only some people.

> but only have fake explanations that modern human mind can accept

Thank you for this, it's nice to see some people still have the ability to think beyond propaganda.

Why does Chinese sounds so New Yorker to me?

"There are many reasons for that. A obvious one is quick economic growth makes many less educated normal people can afford previously luxury tourism."

I always assumed it came down to exactly this. Give people money who have never had money before and there are going to be some social growing pains but eventually everything will normalize.

Then how does one explain the USA and Japan (just as two examples out of many) - both wealthy countries with very distinct cultures?

Japanese tourists are amazing. I once saw a 20-something couple silently watch a beautiful peacock stroll through the grounds of St. John the Divine, for an HOUR. I was walking around and enjoying the space, but those two seemed to have found some sort of peace with the place that locals will never have. The nodded to me when they left and cleaned up their picnic perfectly. You don't see many Japanese tourists anymore and (completely uniquely) that's a shame.

Yep. This is where the hilariously negative though accurate stereotypes of my people (Armenians) come from. Take people fresh out of 80 years of communism, bring them to America and they go a little to hard on the old consumer culture and bathing in cologne

I first visited China over 25 years ago and the domestic Chinese tourist groups then were a bit painful. As that middle class has grown and they've been able to travel internationally, that fun has spread. Yes, they're pretty obnoxious, but it's more ignorance than intentional.

Certainly not so painful that I'd avoid visiting China though.

Younger Chinese travelling as couples or small groups are much more polite. As you said, within a generation or two, I think the reputation as travellers will improve.

Why do you feel the need to apologize?

This guy is basically saying because of the actions of some Chinese tourists, he's going to stereotype an entire culture of people and you're the one apologizing?

American tourists have an appalling reputation in most of the world, but I wouldn't take that as a reason not to visit America. Most of the stereotypes of Chinese tourists equally apply to Americans.

I think that in both cases, the causes are essentially the same - inexperience. American and Chinese people have very little vacation time. They're both big countries, so there's a lot to see and do domestically. It's quite normal for a European to have travelled abroad several times a year since childhood, but a very large proportion of American and Chinese tourists have little or no experience of international travel. A lack of experience and the desire to cram a lot into a short trip encourages large group tours, which are inherently more disruptive than independent travellers.

It's hard to be thoughtful and polite when you're being hustled from one Kodak moment to the next. It's hard to blend in with the locals when you're in a group of 30 foreign tourists. It's hard to pick up on the local etiquette when you've blasted through six countries in as many days; it's doubly hard when you're from an unusually extroverted culture.

Savvy Americans have started to leave the tour bus behind, learn the art of travel and buck the stereotypes. I'm sure that Chinese travellers will follow the same path.

It has nothing to do with group trips. Even the mainland Chinese living in Sydney are like this. Their kids who study abroad can be better. If anything the tourists are a bit more chill.

I can't speak to the Australian situation, but the vast numbers of Chinese students in the UK are predominantly polite and respectful. That's no mean feat when you consider the subtle, complex and rather passive-aggressive nature of British etiquette.

I don't say this often, but this is straight up racism. You're painting an enormous group of people with a lazy and ignorant stereotype.

It isn't racism at all, literally no one claims ethnically Chinese people from anywhere other than mainland China behave like this.

Some people have to think rather than just regurgitating propaganda, this is a real problem.

Nationality is a race now? Great, when I check the race box from now on I'll just put "United States!"

> Most of the stereotypes of Chinese tourists equally apply to Americans.

I'm sorry this is simply not true and I'd argue this well meaning anti-racist-to-the-point-of-delusion attitude that has been drilled into the heads of Westerners is part of the problem of why China as a nation hasn't made more serious efforts to teach its citizenry the very basics of common courtesy.

I've been in airport immigration queues and watched numerous different Chinese people blatantly (there isn't a strong enough word to fully describe the magnitude) cut into every single line they could....if there was the slightest of gaps, a Chinese person would be jumping into it, completely oblivious (or not, I'm suspicious) to the rude stares of others who are politely queuing. And I won't even get into volume of speaking, driving habits, adherence to laws related to fraud, etc.

One would think their fellow countrymen who know better would say something (if I saw a Canadian pulling this stunt he'd get a severe public shaming from me), but once again most Westerners would probably disagree with this, as the very notion of groups having a social responsibility for "policing themselves" is also considered "racist", as is even noticing blatantly obvious patterns in objective reality.

EDIT: Reminded me of this video:

Why BUY books in CHINA when you can read them for FREE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=950PYt9d1Po

I think this goes a long ways to explaining why they are the way they are, types of behavior that would be unthinkable anywhere else is absolutely normal in China.

I watched that video, the following comment was the most interesting observation for me (I'd want to research this more, but it's an interesting starting point):

Historically, because the oldest bookstore which called "新华书店“ in China is state-owned, they do not have the right to drive the customers away just because they can not buy the books. On the other hand, during that time(1940s), more than 85% of the population are illiterate, so the goverment encouraged people to read in the bookstore and deliberately pulled the price of books. Economically, because the bookstore in China is a collection of various other business projects, such as Tea bars, coffee shops, Stationery shops and so on(you can find these in the veido), so a large number of customer flows will generate huge business benefits. In fact, many bookstores in the UK also allow customers to do so. These are the reasons why this 'porblem' happend in China. I suggest you, please do a little investigation before making a rash judgment

> I suggest you, please do a little investigation before making a rash judgment

"types of behavior that would be unthinkable anywhere else is absolutely normal in China."

I wonder what the store looks like at the end of the day, do you think all the books are back in their places? Or, maybe just 3 or 4 have to be reshelved? :)

There's lot of behavior that would be "unthinkable" outside its home country.

I find it more interesting to try and understand the behavior than only criticize it.

Ask any European who lives or works in a major tourist destination. Many American tourists are wonderful, but the worst of the bunch are atrocious. The yahoo tourists openly mock the local culture, they ask for prices in dollars, they wear yoga pants and tank tops in cathedrals, they get offended when the locals don't speak English. It really isn't unusual to hear someone loudly complaining about how awful everything is and how much better things are in America.

Some American tourists seem to have the attitude that American culture is objectively correct and that the rest of the world is essentially a theme park with bad service. The "USA, USA, USA" attitude doesn't travel well. It's an attitude that quickly melts away after real immersion in a foreign culture, but unfortunately many Americans don't have that luxury.

It isn't a new problem - see this wonderful 1943 training film for American troops being stationed in Britain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyYSBBE1DFw

The American yahoo is an old and usually correct stereotype, but I don't think you get how much "Chinese tourism" is it's own thing these days.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2016/10/07/commentary/wo...

https://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/08/why-are-ch...

http://www.cnn.com/travel/article/chinese-tourism-impact/ind...

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1671504/rude-awakenin...

It's not just hand-wavvy the same the same thing. Of course the title for who has the least bad manners isn't one to brag about.

Chinese tourists in Thailand Buffet - All U Can Eat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBCLXZmMQNs

Children peeing and pooping on the floor on airlines (while being supervised by their parents)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT0kj1AWSfc

Absolutely no shame. In some cases, you literally have to alter your society once Chinese tourists start to come in significant numbers, they are simply incompatible with many modern norms.

Wonderful video, thanks!

> Why BUY books in CHINA when you can read them for FREE!

I don't think that behavior is "unthinkable" outside China at all. Plenty of Americans read books in book stores. In fact, some bookstores even encourage that behavior by installing comfy chairs, couches, or coffee bars.

> I'm sorry this is simply not true

It is true. There definitely is a stereotype that we are loud, obnoxious, etc. Everything people have been saying about the chinese tourist, people have been saying about americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_American_(pejorative)

But the chinese seem to be taking it to another level.

I'm sorry, but this simply is true.

While the Chinese tourists may be loud and assertive, Western tourists have have a colonial attitude and like to get into fights as well.

I've seen them yell at poor waiters because they couldn't understand English. You would think their follow countrymen would say something but instead they jeered along. Insulting them and making "ching-chong" noises (despite the fact that they were in SE Asia and their language is completely different than Chinese).

Oh, reminds me of this article:

Why BUY movies in the US when you can download them for FREE!

https://variety.com/2017/digital/news/piracy-survey-consumer...

I think this goes a long ways to explaining why they are the way they are, types of behavior that would be unthinkable anywhere else is absolutely normal...

At least the queueing thing totally applies to people in China too. There's little queueing culture in many circumstances, so you either learn to shove ahead or you get left behind.

Queuing isn't the objectively correct way to wait for something, it's a specific cultural norm. Many cultures don't queue at all. Attitudes to queue-jumping vary widely, from being an immense faux pas to practically a sport. The British and Russians have a penchant for queuing-without-queuing, with each person keeping a mental note of the order in which everyone is waiting to be served.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/everyone-line-up-canadas...

Indeed, I wouldn't say it's objectively wrong, but it's a big culture shock and can leave you feeling pretty upset if you come from a place where queuing behavior is more regular. Especially since so much of China is so crowded, so having people go in front of you "unfairly" can really screw you over, not just set you back a couple of minutes.

IMO it's objectively superior! I'm fine with queuing-without-queuing as long as it's not abused. Queuing at least makes the order absolutely clear so that people can't as easily change the order, intentionally or accidentally.

I assume you're only pointing out that queuing-without-queuing is a thing, not defending queue-jumping or places where the lack of any ordered system means whoever is strongest pushes to the front.

Basic human ettiequte and decency is taught at home, at schools, and within the culture of society (e.g., Mr. Rogers neighborhood or Sesame Street on TV). I do notice that countries that have serious overcrowding, like mainland China, India, and probably other third-world countries, just do not bother or have no access to, or maybe just plain don't know any better.

I don't think this has anything to do with the lack of travel experience. It's just the way that they were brought up and perhaps in their village or town it's just like that.

There's no such thing as human etiquette, only a specific culture's etiquette. Many behaviours that are perfectly normal in your culture would be unspeakably rude in mine and vice-versa. From the perspective of my overcrowded island in the north Atlantic, Americans are often unbearably loud and brash; to Americans, we often come across as cold, distant and unfriendly. Travel is a skill that has to be learned - we aren't born with the ability to quickly acclimatise to different cultures.

> There's no such thing as human etiquette, only a specific culture's etiquette.

Please, name the cultures that consider defecating in public (sidewalks, shopping malls, airplane aisles) to be normal behavior when there is a washroom less than 1 minute walk away.

For this specific issue, open defecation is actually considered "normal" behavior in many less developed countries (particularly in impoverished areas). This is indeed a health concern; from what I understand, reducing open defecation is a big goal for global health organizations, and countries such as India (where open defecation is unfortunately common, and I definitely witnessed plenty of when I went many years ago) have made large information campaigns to try and discourage the practice.

From the little I can Google (http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/china/people-practicing-open...), it appears that open defecation was possibly more accepted in China, particularly in rural areas, 30 years ago. It looks like China has made a lot of progress regarding sanitation and reducing this practice, which is good. Still, I bet there's still some leftover bad habits, which may carry over to some of the tourist mishaps.

In these countries, is open defecation common as a preference, or because of lack of clean toilet facilities (India, for example, has made some efforts to install public facilities, but from what I've read they are so disgusting due to lack of maintenance, resorting to using the field is the only option).

And before I'll consider the notion that "There's no such thing as human etiquette, only a specific culture's etiquette.", I think I'm going to have to see wealthy people from some other cultures with similar behavior. Until then, my worldview is going to be based on observable reality over optimistic but baseless theories.

The premise that the cultural revolution had literally no lasting effect on anyone is an extraordinary claim, and you know what they say about extraordinary claims...

It's difficult for me to comment on those cultures too extensively since I don't live there; some articles like this -- http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27775327 -- mention "ingrained cultural norms" though.

I get the impression from forums, articles, etc. that while open defecation does happen in China, it is "culturally" only really acceptable in their country for little kids. That's a big difference to the rest of the world, where nappies / diapers are more prevalent (I can't think of another country with open-crotch pants, eg kaidangku, for children like China). But my impression is nowadays that in China parents who use kaidangku are generally thought of as "peasants" / "old fashioned" / etc.

And yes I agree that it's possible that the hangover from the cultural revolution may explain a little bit about the "lack of manners" aspect of the Chinese tourist stereotype.

If you can afford to fly international, carry a $2000 purse, and drive a Mercedes, I'm sorry but "not knowing any better" gets a little old after a while.

If race wasn't a component of this discussion there's no way people would be willing to go through the mental gymnastics required to constantly find a new excuse for this being in no way whatsoever the fault of the "public pooping supervisor".

I suspect this same anti-racism-at-whatever-measure is what makes financial fraud so easy as well.

By far the biggest reason why Chinese tourists act the way they do is because most of them are not even one generation removed from the villages. Most have not gone to university, maybe not even high school. Westerners can look down their noses all they want but when their countries were 70% agrarian, most people were pretty uncouth too.

Culture changes. Once two generations of Chinese have lived in affluent urban settings, their manners will converge with those of other developed countries.

I have experiences with the same type of behavior in India, and a lot of it has got to do with the highly competitive and crowded environment here. If you want access to government services/get served by staff/get onto a bus etc. you will need to be prepared to jostle your way through and be louder than everyone else. 'Personal Space' isn't really a concept that is prevalent here.

This manifests itself in some annoying behaviors like jumping queues, or rushing out of your seats as soon as a plane lands, but also gives rise to some great features - people are rarely wary of strangers, and seem to be more likely to share things or help out one another. Either way, this hardly seems like a deal breaker in deciding what places to visit. There are a lot of factors - natural beauty, history, culture, food, economic development, etc. that are arguably a lot more important.

I can't recall a single instance of an Indian person doing this anywhere in the world I've been to (I haven't been to India itself), leading me to believe they are conscious of their behavior, unlike Chinese mainlanders where it seems to be unconscious instinct.

Most immigrants strive to fit in with those aspects of the host culture that they appreciate. Every immigrant to the US changes their behavior: don't litter, obey traffic rules, stand in the queue, it's okay to smile at strangers etc because they see that everyone else is doing it and it makes life better.

However, this article is about tourists who have no stake in fitting in and will be on a plane back home in a few days.

The Indians outside of India are most probably not tourists. India is yet to gain Chinese level wealth. Unfortunately a trip to India would tarnish your image of us. It's a crowded third world country with third world facilities.

Most of those annoying and stupid individuals are from the so called China's Lost Generation. I found the following video made by two westerners explains the reasons in a pretty accurate way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Dh2gFX4Mg

Shoutout to the whole ADV China channel. As an expat in Hong Kong that rides motorcycles, I enjoy their stuff a lot.

can't wait for their upcoming conquering northern china series.

That is a great link. Very interesting to a possible future visitor. But to be honest, the more I hear the less inclined to go I am.

The guys in the video are mostly correct.

The problems with the lost generation are sophisticated, partially caused by the lack of education, but also the wrecked economy at Mao's era, worse than that of North Korea these days. Even worse, Mao blindly followed Russia to encourage baby booming, and there were consecutive 3-year natural disasters around 1960, consequently all these caused severe national wide food shortage. Lots of people died of starvation, for the rest, they had to do everything to just survive, regardless the means were either moral or evil. That's where the lost generation came from. Would they care Confucius? of cause not, part of Mao's culture r8n actually encouraged them to somehow not to believe in the traditional culture, of many that includes Confucius.

Fast forward to now, people of the lost generation are mostly retired and free, and some also have the money to tour around, definitely not all, but given the overall population that's a huge number of people, especially when compared to other places in the world, no wonder they were called locust in HK.

Luckily, things improved a lot, both the education system and economy wise, that's why you can see the young generation, who you probably communicated with, are mostly kind, or at least much better compared to the lost generation, and they'll bring even better education and economy to the following generations. I'm holding a good faith, and hopefully so are you.

That's a very interesting video, I had no idea part of "the lost generation" culture was that they were explicitly taught an attitude of arrogance, "we can do whatever we want, there are no rules". Matches reality very well.

It's not unique to Thailand. HKGers hate them (mainlanders) too, locust they are referred to. Invasion of personal space is another issue, when they do queue they practically breathe on your neck, or worse sneeze as they havent heard of holding their mouth. Btw, also living in Thailand.

I don't think there is any deliberate malice in it, but consideration for themselves and their family only and solely, is evident and consistent, this aint a bad apple issue. The tour operators and charter flight providers could do more prearrival education in my opinion, fake modern manners for all I care.

I feel very sorry for flight attendants in asia, always a good chat about the subject if sat opposite jump seat

Disliking the mainland is part of Hong Kong's identity. While initially shocking if you go back and forth enough you start appreciating the lesser rules of the mainland and realize that HK is still quite colonial. And while mainlanders won't say "yes sir", or speak English, they are generally quite friendly, curious and genuine. Of course a sense of humor often also helps.

In London with the family. Spent the day at the British Museum. Full of people from all over the world. It was crowded. However if an path was blocked it was Chinese tour group with no regard for the others around them. The tour groups from other nations kept a clear path. It's really sad that such a rich culture with a rich history has such lost generation of rude people.

Nope, this is a pretty good summary of all Chinese tourists and, for the most part, a good summary of what it's like getting around China.

As others have said though, I wouldn't let this put you off visiting China. There are some really incredible places in China, and most people are really, really friendly. Most of the time, people are more than willing to help you out, especially if you're white (sad, but true). And as long as you don't go during Chinese holidays (Feb or Oct) then it won't be too bad travelling around the country.

> my experience with Chinese tourists has turned me off visiting the mainland completely.

Don't let this keep you from visiting mainland China. Tourists from most countries seem to be far more asshole-ish than locals in general.

I went to China in 2011 (Shaighai – Xiamen – Hong Kong) and it was a great experience.

My theory is that for some reason the class of Chinese people who can afford to travel to western countries somehow enriches for ones who are somewhat rude.

As someone who lives in Hong Kong, I can totally relate to how you feel about Mainland tourists. But that said, I love visiting China, most people there are extremely friendly and helpful. Sure, you might see some weird things once in a while, but you see that everywhere. The misbehaving Chinese tourists shouldn't keep you from visiting China.

It's a massive country with a lot of different groups of people. They're not all the same.

Also living in HK and used to live in Guangzhou. Most of the time you wouldn't know if you were stood next to someone from China or HK on the MTR. However, I do find it kinda funny when a loud, obnoxious, suitcase wielding tourist steps onto the train and you can see people thinking to themselves "Yep, mainlander". Or maybe that's just me, who knows.

If you get outside the cities, you will meet a ton of genuinely friendly, interesting people. City life in China is rather... Mercenary.

(nb- I may be a poor judge, as I don't particularly enjoy living in cities anywhere, regardless of continent.)

(nb2- I used to live on the outskirts of Vientiane, Laos, and loved it. Except for the monkeys. And the fact that that half my family loves durian. But that is a subject for a different post.)

I've seen this exact thing during my travels all over Europe. While on a train in Norway I watched a tiny older Chinese lady push over a young British woman in order to get to the window so she could take a picture.

Took my family to Thailand two years ago and we (2 generations born and raised in No.3 on the city list) were surprised too, literally had to extend our stay in Koh Samui island to avoid the shame from fellow Chinese speakers in Bangkok..

This opinion is probably the single greatest unifier I've experienced when visiting different countries.

Possibly, but where I live we get the same sort of tourists from China. I'd love to see some of the more interesting parts of Chinese history in person, but I'm not entirely sure I want to brave a whole lot of people acting like that to get to them.

Does anyone know if the Chinese government has done any public education campaign on the issue? It often seems as mainlanders just don't know — they'll literally spit on the floor of a bus.

I'm curious: have you had those experiences everywhere in Thailand, or only at the most famous tourist sites?

I've read this about Chinese tourists for years. But all the Mainlander tourists I've spotted in Taiwan and Hong Kong have been normally behaved, which has always been mildly disappointing. Until I finally visited some of the more touristy Thailand temples and saw the behavior you describe.

My theory is that the sort of Chinese tourist who fits this stereotype will almost exclusively follow a guided itinerary with a big tour group.

I think we should remember that although this may be the case today, cultures of the younger generation can change quickly. Also, although you haven’t explicitly stated this, it can be extremely easy to dismiss or judge a whole country based on this, so make sure to keep an open mind.

This is how I feel about Australia.

All of the Australians I have seen in SE Asia are sex tourists so I can't help but wonder if it's just the type Australian tourists that visit SE Asia and Australia would be different, but its just not a risk i'm willing to take.

I don't agree with you. Here in the UK most of the Chinese tourists we get here are perfectly fine and don't display any of the behavior you've spoken about.

They are probably just too excited for the first time abroad. Eventually we all get bored.

I wonder who's loss it is that you don't visit due to a potential minor inconvenience.

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