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Comment by ttoinou | Hacker News Reader

   There are not many shows taht are better than the Wire

Oz ?

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I've come around to the thinking that Sopranos (even if I prefer the Wire) was the best show on television. Before it, nothing on television came close to the depth that the Sopranos did. It laid the foundation for epic shows like The Wire, Game of Thrones, and Breaking Bad.

Maybe I'm nuts, but I couldn't stand The Sopranos. I didn't find Tony Soprano to be a sympathetic antihero at all. Just a vile gangster who I just wanted to be killed in every episode.

I felt the same. I watched it all the way through and understand that it laid the groundwork so a better show like The Wire could be produced. But I agree with you. I hated Tony and basically everyone he associated with and was glad to see some of them killed off. I guess that means it was well written but its the reason I haven't bothered to rewatch.

The Wire on the other hand I've seen completely atleast 5 times and always notice something new.

Maybe you're not supposed to find him sympathetic. Maybe you're not even supposed to find him unsympathetic. Maybe that's one of the things that differentiates good shows from great shows.

> Just a vile gangster who I just wanted to be killed in every episode.

Yes! Seeing the family struggles of a vile gangster is what made the show amazing.

Overall, The Sopranos stands near the top in my book, but it did suffer from some unevenness. There seemed to be experimentation with directors that didn't always work (an Imperioli episode comes immediately to mind). And, there were some episodes and arcs that didn't have the same weight overall.

Still top-tier, and I think it laid a foundation that others have built upon, in sheer game-elevation alone.

I'm an Oz fanboy and this is as close to objectively wrong as any subjective value judgment can get. Even the best of Oz is barely as good as the worst of the Wire - and Oz just got progressively worse as the seasons went on.

Oz is terrible; so hammy and unrealistic. J.K. Simmons is about its only saving grace.

> so hammy and unrealistic

That's what I liked about it.

Not even close. The only contender is Deadwood (RIP).

I think nobody really touches David Simon in TV. He's like Miyazaki in anime I feel. First it's him, then everybody else. The Wire, Treme, Generation Kill... it's just another level. On the next step below we'd have things like Man Men, Deadwood, The Sopranos, etc.

I would count both The Sopranos and Breaking Bad as contenders, personally.

I think the Wire excelled at a more difficult game because the writing adhered to a kind of journalistic dogma that didn't allow for many of the tricks used in the storytelling of Breaking Bad or The Sopranos. Walt could blow up a room and not only survive, but convince a psychopathic drug dealer to do business with him by that very act. Tony Soprano could garner empathy and understanding by showing us his dream sequences. But The Wire gave its audience only what its characters said and did. Characters who-- by and large-- couldn't just "problem solve" their way out of their circumstances like Walt did so often.

McNulty planting evidence in the Journalism season was such bullshit though.

How so?

Season 5 is the most underappreciated season, but I've really started to appreciate it.

McNulty has been a character who believes the ends justify the means. In Season 1, he falsifies that Sidner (iirc) was on the roof, thus allowing the police to admit phone tapped evidence.

In Season 5, it shows how taking that mentality of by any means necessary can quickly spiral out of control.

I enjoyed deadwood, and I thought the story arc with The Comstock and George Hearst as a robber baron was going to have a huge payoff, but instead the series was cut short which is a huge shame.

There is just enough foolery to make it easily tier 2 for me: Francis Wolcott's story arc, Olyphant's acting, Seth Bullock's attempt at morale highground.

If folks aren't turned off by violence, profanity, and prostitution, it's definitely must watch tv.

I stopped watching Deadwood in the middle of season 2 because the acting was so bad it didn't felt real (but I liked it apart from that)

Oz is still one of my favorite tv show, it has so many good characters and the huit clos format (closed doors) is really perfect for focusing on them

Surely The Sopranos is a contender as well. In my mind those three occupy a tier above all other television dramas.

Sopranos is in the tier JUST immediately below The Wire and Breaking Bad, for me. Amazing TV, but not quite at that extra-elite level. I have not yet watched Deadwood, and judging from these discussions, I should.

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