Comment by DuncanIdaho | Hacker News Reader

Comment by DuncanIdaho | Hacker News Reader

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Because I see it everyday. Hell I've got a sister that couldn't save a dime if she made a billion dollars a day.

I know it's a circular argument - but because if they (or their parents) could manage resources better they wouldn't be poor - don't look at what signle person does - look at their bloodline.

My parents (mother mostly) managed to save enough money to buy her first property by age 18 (she started working age 15). She managed to save incredible amounts of money - while mostly working minimum wage type jobs - for her entire life and we always had cash when necessary.

It did take a lot of sacrifices. I mostly wore second hand clothing until I could afford to buy my own. I was never to McDonalds until age 15. We never went to theatres. We spent most of our vacations working, She did a lot of stuff that is nowadays considered ecological/organic/fancy - but 30 years ago made you look like a lunatic in eyes of general community (recycling/reusing everything - like taking zippers off clothing and using it on other clothing). I was raised entirely on organic food - thinking that I'm deprived because of it. But I was always encouraged to study - hell I was probably second kid in class to get access to a computer and certainly first kid in class to have their OWN computer.

Hell I might go and write a "How to survive on 100 dollars a month." guides only on stuff I learned from her.

I was certain that we are piss poor until I realized that we are actually pretty wealthy - just poor on liquid assets.

Bootstrapping yourself from poverty is certainly possible - but most people are just too ignorant (yes it might be cruel but thats the way I see it) to pull it off.

Have you ever noticed how many poor people smoke/drink - have you ever considered what a % of their income goes towards these habbits?

Hell I might go and write a "How to survive on 100 dollars a month." guides only on stuff I learned from her.

I'd rather like to hear about this, since my upkeep costs are about four times that (though I'm not sure I'd trust housing that rents for less than $100 per tenant per month).

Likewise. Please write it!

This is my (DuncanIdaho) second account.

It's a long list with some old-school wisdom. Here's a few...

1. Don't buy anything until you absolutely need it. Wear second hand clothing - nowadays you can get insane amounts of perfect if a little outdated clothing that will work fine with a bit of care (patching and sewing - people have totally forgotten how to sew nowadays). 2. Get a patch of land and start producing something - anything really. It will either help your bottom line or decrease your living costs. Also getting a patch of woods will provide you with "free" energy. Expand! 3. Barter - there's always something somebody needs that you don't need and vice versa. 4. Learn how to do stuff - my mother had sewn her own clothes or knitted it all. Don't worry about fashion - fashion is about self confidence and making your own clothes will make you plenty self confident - it's how you wear stuff not what you wear. I have also never been to a barber - before my mother or sister cut my hair, now I motivated my GF to learn (by trial and error) and she's getting pretty good now :) 5. Do stuff for people - being kind to people will make them do stuff for you. Also avoid doing stuff for people who won't return favors. 6. Buy food in bulk. Buy beans, potatoes, flour,... in larger quantities (half a year's worth) and prepare your own meals - you can learn to do a lot of stuff in advance. 7. Observe masters at work - when doing stuff at home we always first got a craftsman to do it - observed it and if it wasn't really high skill work, you can imitate and learn a trade, by the way.

and there's more. Might make a fine e-book (see, business opportunity!).

In short - my mum is quite a hacker (she used to be a truck driver back in the day when women were rarely driving cars (in 60's)).

And she had taught me basics of masonry, farming, household works, marketing,...

And that is why I firmly believe that, yes, while only 1% will get out of poverty its not due to some sort "sheer luck" scenario, but due to some serious willpower and dedication required to pull it off.

So basically we could get away without spending any money - beyond stuff you cant pay for without money (utilities, gas,...).

I know you might say - a lot of stuff you mentioned is not really worth it. But see - that's the flaw. Basically its compounding all over again - Small Stuff Adds Up! My mother says: "To some people nothing is ever worth doing. But to me everything is."

And to address your question regarding living expenses. My mother used to spend her first three years (15-18) working 8-10 hours a day in a factory AND after that working 4-6 hours on a farm for shelter and food. This enabled her to buy her first said property and from there on she has always been on her own land. It is true that land was way cheaper then, but she had to start very small anyways.

Of course you can bootstrap yourself from poverty. But what is the probability of you doing that 1%. Count yourself lucky. Here is a different perspective on poverty: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/03/30/...

"Poverty and wealth, by this logic, don't just fall along a continuum the way hot and cold or short and tall do. They are instead fundamentally different experiences, each working on the human psyche in its own way."

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