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But they define "moderate" as 2 drinks/day for a man.

That is 14 drinks a week which puts you in the second highest decile for Americans!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

The study linked in the article says "Information was collected in face-to-face computer-assisted interviews conducted in the participants’ homes." [1]

It seems like this is a study where people might be likely to lie about their consumption, or even earnestly estimate it incorrectly. Is there any way to control for that? The distribution feels too extreme, like a significant number of people underestimated and overestimated at either end of the spectrum.

[1]https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AA70/AA70.htm

Multiply by 1.5 or 2 usually. Much like software estimates.

One sure-fire way to control for this sort of loose testimonial data is to collect many volunteers among those who affirm such habits, and follow many or all of them longitudinally, and engage with them and make observations, hopefully without influencing behavior too much.

It's not a short-cut by any means, if that's what you had in mind.

A "drink" is not in line with common vernacular though. What most people would call a "drink" is usually about 1.5 or more drinks by the medical standard. A decent sized glass of red wine can easily be 3 drinks.

The article says a 12 oz beer (slightly larger than the standard 330ml beer) is 1 drink for the purposes of the study.

According to the study which was linked in another comment [1] they were using the standard defined in [2]. This site shows that one pint of lager counts as 2 units of alcohol. One pint is 19.2 oz [3]. A bottle of beer is usually 12 oz, aka 5/8 of a pint, aka 1.25 units of alcohol. I trust the source over the science journalist.

[1] http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2353

[2] https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/unit-calculator

[3] Google failed me here. British pints are 19.2 oz, not 12 oz, as pointed out in the comments below.

On a slightly unrelated note.. A woman would be defined as a moderate drinker if she drinks more than one unit a day, but most beer companies don't sell ~10 oz cans of beer. When I feel like drinking at a restaurant, I make a joke and ask for a "child size" beer. When I drink at home, I usually have to pour out part of the full bottle of beer because it is just too much. It seems like a waste!

They give a more helpful description within the paper as well.

> 1 unit contains 10 mL or 8 g of alcohol

> 14 units (UK guidance per week for men and women) is equivalent to 4 pints of high strength beer or 5 large glasses of 14% wine (see below)

> 24.5 units (US guidance for men) is equivalent to 7 pints of beer or 9 glasses of wine

So 4 pints of high strength beer is 14 "units". 5.2% is the value used, which I wouldn't consider a very high strength beer at all ;)

Keep in mind their pint (568ml, per paper) is an imperial pint (19.2 fl oz) and not an American pint (16 fl oz).

So, in US terms, UK guidance is ~5 pints and US/men is ~8.5 pints. Not a huge difference in terms of point made, but mostly so the message doesn't get garbled over the pond.

Also, their "high strength beer" in the paper (5.2%) is pretty much normal for American lager, so don't get thrown off by the high strength bit.

One British pint is 568mL, and one "unit" of alcohol is 10mL -- I think the latter might be a European standard.

That makes a ½pt (284mL) beer, at 3.5%, almost exactly 10mL of alcohol (284*0.035 = 9.94).

The average beer is stronger than it was 20 years ago, but there's still a feeling that 1pt = 2 units in Britain.

> The average beer is stronger than it was 20 years ago

I very much doubt this. High strength lagers are much less popular than they were 20 years ago, not least because of beer tax that scales with strength. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11455150/Britain...

This is probably very, very regional.

IPA's have grown in popularity, for what it's worth, and are generally higher alcohol (5-6% in UK, 7-10% in the US).

The biggest selling cask ale in the UK (Greene King IPA), is 3.6% abv

Draught beer is served in 25cL in France. But the alcool unit is not defined as in the UK. 1 unit is 10g of ethanol, not 10mL, so I don't know about a European standard. Alcool has a density of 0.789, so about 12.7mL. So just over 5% alcool for 25cL. It's possible to find lager beer at 5%, but the trend is for stronger beer. But a bottled 33cL 7.5% craft beer would be about 2 french units.

*edit: there is no EU standard, UK 8g, France 10g, Germany 14g https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink#Definitions_in_...

Wow. 3.5% beer...is almost unheard of in the USA, especially in the face of the overwhelming popularity of “craft” and “micro” brews which often click in above the 6% mark

This is very very wrong. You should be hesitant to extrapolate so wildly from your bubble.

The timing and circumstances of when I started drinking means I've only ever drunk craft beer, but I'm also aware that where i live is not representative f the country. Craft beer has a 12% share of the US's beer market. "Overwhelming popularity" is just flat wrong.

3.5 is still really low. Even stuff like Miller/Coors Lite is 4.2%. Bud is 5%.

Yea, but the baseline for that _type_ of beer is pretty low so the shittier ones in that part of the market can easily reach 3.5. Many of the fraternities at my (large, public) university would bulk-buy 2.5% beer.

This is in contrast to the baseline that the parents claim would imply, in a market supposedly "overwhelmingly" skewed towards stronger craft beer.

And what exactly were these 2.5% beers that your university's fraternities were buying? Can you provide a concrete example of these popular 2.5% beers available in bulk?

And where is this university located?

My mistake, I was just curious enough to double-check and it was 3.2% (low-point beer).

When you're supplying drinks for hundreds of random people, the volume starts to be a lot more important than the quality of the beer (or alcohol) itself. Everyone who lived in the frat had their own private stashes of better beer that they and their friends would drink from, and our private parties were better-supplied.

There is a trend right now of "session beers" that clock in at under 5% so that you can drink more or get less drunk.

Blue moon, which I prefer, sits right at 3.2%.

The standard Blue Moon is 5.4%. There's a 3.2% variant, but it's only sold in a handful of U.S. states (like Utah and Oklahoma) that have a 3.2% cutoff for beers sold at convenience and grocery stores.

3.2% by weight or volume? Most of the 3.2% beers are measured by weight because it is related to some state law that specifies alcohol by weight. This translates to about 4% by volume.

Right, but beer varies widely in alcohol content. One "standard beer" might be defined as 12 oz / ~330ml @ 4.5% alcohol by volume, but many IPAs are 6-7% or greater, and in most U.S. states you can find lots of beer in excess of 10% ABV.

'''In general getting much above 10-15%abv requires specialty yeasts or concentration techniques, and getting much above 20% is going to require some sort of concentration.'''

https://alcohol.stackexchange.com/questions/110/what-is-the-...

One of my favorites is Founders Kentucky Breakfast Stout, which is a barrel-aged beer and is around 13%. Actually where I live, barrel-aged beers are becoming very common, most craft breweries have them. And they're all above 10%.

Not debating the "specialty concentration techniques" since it's basically infusing the beer with whiskey, but it's certainly very easy to get a beer with an ABV above 10%. Very easy. Your local liquor store likely has several varieties in stock right now.

“Lots of beer in excess of 10%” is a bit of a stretch. I think it’s more common to see the 6-7% range represented with something pushing 10% being the outlier.

A bit of a weird and somewhat related trivia to the question of what is a drink there is a reverse situation in Canada sometimes.

In Canada (and UK?) legally a pint is 20 fluid ounces but in the USA it's 16 fluid ounces. Some bars in Canada serve 16 oz drinks calling it a pint. My guess is they buy "pint size" glassware from the US but it's 16 oz..

I couldn't get beyond the paywall, but did they mention which sort of beer? Standard Bud/Miller products? Using a 12 oz beer as a starting point doesn't mean much in a craft beer world with most "good" beers ranging from 5-8% ABV.

Edit: not really understanding the downvotes? Alcohol content is extremely important in understanding the meaning of a "drink". Not trying to be pedantic, but now more than ever, "a beer" is not really a useful descriptor.

I bring this up because I personally enjoy a beer at the end of a long day. I tend to drink IPAs, and those IPAs tend to range from 6-8% ABV. Trying to put this article in the context of my personal habits.

In the UK we use "units of alcohol".

One unit of alcohol is defined as 10 ml of pure alcohol.

That's about 8 gm (I think).

In the UK the strength of an alcoholic drink is given as Alcohol by Volume, as a percentage.

Beer is typically about 5%.

To work out the unit you multiply the serving size in liters by the ABV number.

A 330 ml bottle of beer at 5% = 0.33 * 5 = 1.65 units. (The bottle would probably say 1.7 units.)

The US uses a different amount of alcohol for their standard drink. I think they use 12 gm of pure alcohol.

(EDIT: I didn't downvote you. I upvoted you. I don't understand the downvotes.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink#Definitions_in_... The standard varies by countries. The UK unit is 8g, the australian and french units are 10g, the american and german units are 14g.

One of my big drinking epiphanies is a US pint of Brooklyn Defender or Ithaca Flower Power IPA is approximately 2 standard drinks.

4 beers in this scenario equals half a fifth of normal 80 proof whiskey like Jack Daniels.

A "couple of beers and a shot" becomes equal to an entire bottle of wine.

Two beers with a long pour (friendly bartender) of tequila or Jameson on the rocks is again, nearly half a bottle of whiskey.

Etc. IPAs are deceptive when you're just trying to "have a couple of beers at the pub down the street after work."

Every time I ask what defines a "drink" in absolute terms of alcohol content I get downvoted too.

It's 8 grams or 10 mL of pure alcohol. So you would need to calculate that based on percentage and volume for the specific drink. But you can reason using the "standard beer/wine/whiskey units" as a rule of thumb and round up by 1 or 2 total drinks over the course of say a few IPAs vs Budweisers. Same if you drink 100 proof vs 80. Or 15% zinfandel vs 12% merlot.

A good rule of thumb that my college alcohol edu used was a 12 oz beer, 4 oz glass of wine, and 1.5 oz shot all equaled one drink, at 4,12,and 36% respectively. You'll obviously need to adjust for those numbers but it has always helped anchor me (even though I haven't had a 4% beer since college).

What about alcohol content

It's actually 0.6 ounces of alcohol irrespective of alcohol content. Therefore 12 oz 5% beer = 1.5 oz 40% liquor = 5 oz 12% wine = 1 unit

You are correct when it comes to beer and wine. When it comes to liquor, a drink is usually 1.5oz (which is the size of an actual shot) but bars and clubs will frequently pour 1oz and call it a shot.

I would consider moderate drinking to be 4-5 drinks a week (drinking socially weekends). 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night. In what world is that moderate?

> 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night

Maybe if you hammer the 2 drinks and you weigh 100 pounds. But 2 drinks with a normal drinking pace will not get most people tipsy or remotely drunk.

I would guess 2 drinks per night is moderate in many countries. When I was in Italy I observed many drinking red wine in the morning at some cafes.

It does seem, however, that in Italy as an example "The older generation drinks four times as much as the younger generation on average." [1].

A lot of people feel a societal pressure to only drink when others are drinking - special occasions or nights out on the town. Or only after certain times like 5 PM. Personally I think that leads to more binge drinking. I'll drink without worrying if anyone else around me is. I'm an adult.

[1] http://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-italian-wine-con...

I think alcohol is a pretty horrible drug so I try to minimize my intake, but I know a fair few people who reach this without any behaviors that seem out of the ordinary. 6-8 drinks on a Friday night (this is about what I'd drink back when I used to go to bars), and then one or two drinks scattered across the rest of the evening: beer/wine with dinner or scorch afterwards or a mimosa or two with brunch. Especially when you take into account that a bottle of 6-8% beer is quite a bit more than a single standard drink.

That only involves "getting drunk" once a week, which I think a lot of people consider pretty moderate.

Urgh, it's too late to edit it but it should say "scattered across the rest of the evenings ", not all in the same night...

Gotta lay off the scorch.

Damn it haha, I missed that one

I usually drink a bottle of beer with dinner and I don't think this makes me any kind of heavy drinker. I'm probably doing more subtle long-term damage to my body from drinking 4-5 large cups of tea every day.

What's the downside of tea? I always thought it was pretty harmless (especially green tea).

I think it can cause iron deficiency but I don't know exactly what type of tea that is and how much you'd have to drink. Drinking it with your meal is probably unwise if you have a known iron uptake problem.

Congratulations, you are not an alcoholic!

People who drink 2 drinks a night are not dependent drinkers either.

This study is not about people dependent on alcohol. It's about people who drink at or slightly above the recommended limits (When the study started the limits were 21 drinks a week for men).

Thank you, but my comment wasn't about the study. My comment was a direct response to the parent's opinion about what is considered moderate drinking. An alcoholic would have a much more liberal judgment.

Moderation is contextual.

The consensus among my University classmates was that moderate drinking was drinking until you are moderately drunk (say around 6 drinks). It seems like they were poorly informed.

France?

Americans are practically teetotallers, apparently?

We drink about 30% less alcohol than the Brits and the French (who drink about the same amount).

It's unevenly distributed

But the highest decile is >74 drinks / week so 2 per day really is moderate in comparison... that article is quite the eye-opener!

Yes, that's a pretty high amount

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