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Comment by ramy_d | Hacker News Reader

I don't get it - that competition is of bike thefts for unguarded and _unlocked_ bikes. Surely it means nothing. Do people not buy bike locks in those regions?

Is it typical for a 13mm+ Ulock in Amsterdam to get broken?

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U locks don't deter thieves at all. If they want a bike, they will get it no matter what. Almost everyone commutes on beaters for good reason.

https://www.citylab.com/navigator/2014/10/your-u-lock-is-bas...

I always heard that a small U lock[1] is always better than a larger one and I never understood why. Now i know, that modified carjack is something else.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Evolution-Mini-Bike-U-Lock...

Also just a crowbar can be used instead of that jack. Small ulocks do help. But they have their own problem: they increase the chance of you being unable to lock your bike at all. Sometimes your destination doesn't have great bike racks, and you have to make due with something a small ulock won't fit on.

> If they want a bike, they will get it no matter what.

There's a god-botherer in my city who gets old bikes, attaches a placard with how you're all going to hell if you don't let jesus into your life, and then leaves them around the city... locked with homemade steel u-bolt locks filled with concrete, so that authorities have more trouble getting rid of them. Admittedly they're not valuable bikes, but I've never heard of one being stolen...

I'd be willing to bet those bikes don't meet the "want" part of the equation. They sound interesting though, any links on them?

Here you go:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a-bloke-called-barry-and-t...

I believe the best locks are the heavy chains of 8 mm hardened steel. You see them everywhere.

Thinner chains are easily cut, as I experienced when my son list his keys. Proper ring locks are also impossible to cut, but they only lock the rear wheel and don't lock the bike to an object, so it can still be carried away.

I've had three bikes stolen in about three months time. Each time, I used what was considered a high-end lock. I was usually more bummed out at losing the lock because they cost me more than the bike.

The best strategy, I find, is to avoid leaving the bike in theft 'hot spots', especially in the weekend. If that can't be avoided, make sure to put the bike behind another bike, preferable a fancy one or one with a shitty lock.

The weirdest thing happened to a friend a long time ago (not in the Netherlands though). He had a fancy lock on a crappy bike. The bike was there, but not the lock.

I did that too. Back in university, I'd refurbished a white granny bike I found in the trash. The thick chain lock was the most expensive part of it. It got stolen one of the few times I parked it at Oude Manhuispoort (an infamous bike theft hotspot at a central location of the UvA).

Ever since, I try parking my bike near one that looks better and is locked worse than mine.

Yes. Another point is that even when you lock your bike, thiefs often carry the bike in its entirety or just screw off one of the wheels. Just don't buy a new bike when you're frequently in a hot spot.

Locking just a wheel is a rookie mistake, of course! Always wrap it around the frame and something that is solidly rooted in the ground.

It's just that even all that isn't always good enough if the homeless guy or professional bike thief has a power-cutter thingy.

My sister locked her bike to a pole through the frame in San Diego. When she came back literally every other part was gone, and the frame remained locked to the pole. They even took the cranks, the forks, and the brake cables. Who steals brake cables?

I had the quick release clamp stolen on mine (after taking the seat off). Twice in one week, because i happened to have a spare. And the window wipers from my car one time.

I saw a bike chained to something once, little foldable bike, with the saddle missing. It dawned on me later that the owner probably took it with him, to make it less attractive to be stolen.

That, or the seat got stolen. Some people have an odd sense of humor.

A good leather bike seat can be pretty valuable on its own.

Especially if said thief had previously stolen a seatless bike.

The people who steal a frame somewhere else. Otherwise they can not finish their bike...

Yeah I left my bike at work and someone decided he had more use for my rear lights than me. Who steals 5€ lights?!

Somebody who needs it and has a criminal attitude. It's 5 Euros for free, like a banknote on the sidewalk.

Also use 2 different locks, like dLock and a cable lock.

Create bike Safezones, by adding a small plasti foil bag with fish-oil beneath the saddle, which rips if not removed at ride-start. Even bike-thiefs do not want to stink.

Reminds me of that 'prank' video where they left a bike on a steel cable, which the thieves found out the hard way (e.g. after leaving). Oh and another one where they put a tazer in the saddle.

Greasing the handlebars and seat may work well :-)

It's not competition with unguarded/unlocked bikes. In order to minimize chance of theft you're competing for least desirability and most effort to steal. Most if not all Dutch bikes are by default fitted with an O-lock, which is a good first line of defense, combined with attaching your bike to a railing/bikestand/tree with a decent hardened steel chain lock.

I heard 2 horrible things about O-locks. 1 - Every bike has them in europe, 2 - you can open them by jamming a flathead screw driver through the keyhole and twisting. Any truth to that?

O-locks are pretty much just a nice place to keep your keys while you're biking. Everyone I know goes for separate chains, usually on the pricier end. From what I hear the ones that look like round padlocks are ridiculously easy to break, and the ones with the square lock part with two pins is considered among the best (but sadly also annoying to use).

But that's what multiple bike shop owners told me and they all wanted to sell me a lock, so I don't know if this is true.

Edit: Oh, I forget. O-locks are also very convenient if your bike is still within eyesight and you just want to avoid run-by-thefts. Perfect if you're popping into a shop for food or cigarettes or whatnot.

The thing with an O lock is that is locks the rear wheel. A chain lock then can lock both the frame and front wheel to a pole. Although not 100% safe, most thieves will look for easier targets.

The old style ring locks from 30 years ago were trivial to open with a screwdriver. Modern ones are not. You need to grind through the hardened steel to open those.

That's the very old style one, you could also just open it with a piece of wire.

You can't easily open the lock, but as people can still walk away with the bike it isn't a real deterrent either.

The old models you can just bend open, the material is very weak (just keeps out honest people).

It's not hard to break a modern lock but it requires more than a screwdriver.

1 is a myth, 2 is probably true.

> Is it typical for a 13mm+ Ulock in Amsterdam to get broken?

Yes. One thing that still works is to get two different high-end locks and to always use both. Most thieves specialize in one lock only. But I'd still not leave a decent bike outside over night.

Here in the UK, savvy bicycle commuters buy an extremely heavy chain [1] and leave it locked up outside their office. Bicycle locks are a compromise because they need to be light enough to carry. If you don't carry your lock, you can use a massive lump of metal.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lDcViM1EKc

Then UK thieves are clueless. The recommended padlocks (SS50C or SS65C) can be picked (search for model + "picked" on youtube) in less than 30 seconds. For bystanders picking the lock looks like you are just too stupid or drunk to use your key.

I would imagine that an angle grinder works equally well with all locks regardless of brand.

Cold spray and a hammer is faster and much less noisy and does not come with a free pyrotechnics display.

There's a video where a guy breaks a bicycle lock with a angle grinder, in the middle of the day in a city center. Nobody bats an eye. Breaking the lock doesn't have to subtle.

Does that work? And what do you mean by cold spray exactly? Ralgex?

If it wouldn't work I wouldn't write it.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cold+spray+bike...

Second to that. Metall becomes brittle at -20. Bing.

Because clearly, when stealing a bike, you want the entire neighborhood hear you for ten minutes, emitting sparks everywhere, while you had to bring an angle grinder.

You're supposed to be somewhat discreet when doing that, not warning everyone.

Most people's locks can be cut with a strong set of shears. The other ones are usually not worth spending your time on unless it's everything there is. In which case, like @jacquesm said, freezing temperatures are an excellent solution. More of a middle of the night thing though. Shears work 24/7.

I have 'stolen' my own bike after losing the key. It was in bright daylight in plain view with a ton of people walking by. No one said anything.

Yeah I think the main benefit of using two locks is that a thief will just go for an easier option. IIRC similar rules apply to home security. It's not only about deterrence; making your house more of a nuisance than other houses is important too.

I agree - you don't need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun your friend.

It does, but it requires power and time, and makes a ton of noise. Most thieves prefer something quick and quiet.

welp, if this entire thread taught me anything, is that I need to lojack (or whatever it's called) my bike.

> Surely it means nothing

Well I guess it means that you can't leave your bike unlocked in parts of Amsterdam, which is a shame.

You can't leave your bike unlocked anywhere. Ever. At anytime. How come this isn't the initial reasoning? In fact, you can't leave anything unattended or not secured. This goes for cars, bikes, luggage, homes, i don't know what else.

There's still quite a few places on this earth where people don't even bother to lock their front doors, or don't worry about leaving their bike lying around somewhere unsecured.

What you said is mostly for true for major cities though.

Places where paranoia is still a disease..

I was surprised to see hundreds of unlocked bikes in Japan. Sounds like it's common over there: https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/3loaqx/bikes_par...

Bike theft is also common in Japan.

Interesting, since the discussion talks about bikes laying around for 9+ months, and gathering and tagging "abandoned" bikes every 6 months.

When I was in Tokyo I saw hundreds of bikes unlocked. There was a poster with a security photo saying "bike thief." My wife mentioned it was likely that person had just grabbed the wrong bike.

I'm not saying bike theft doesn't happen in Japan, it just seems to be significantly more rare in Japan compared to most other places.

I remember hearing San Francisco was trying to cut down on the secondhand market as a way to reduce bike theft. I see Japan has a registration system for bikes. I wonder how much that contributes?

I've lived in a 250 people Swiss mountain town with 500 bed tourism and nothing was locked ever.

our brave total surveillance future does have this silver lining!

I remember Tokyo in 1998, almost every bicycle was unlocked. I hope it's still like that.

That being true doesn't mean I can't lament the fact that these shitty people exist and are able to get away with it.

It's clearly meant to be humorous.

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