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Comment by guelo | Hacker News Reader

I always viewed Whole Foods much more cynically. Their supposed high quality is more about marketing to gullible liberals than anything else. The fact that they sell homeopathy sets off my scammer alarms.

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With regards to homeopathic remedies, I would argue find store that sells any health products that doesn't have at least a small shelf dedicated to homeopathic remedies. I agree with you that the basis for the homeopathic remedies is non-sense, but it also strikes me as a caveat emptor, to a certain point.

As for the other half, are you suggesting that only those of liberal politics would ever buy organic or fresh produce, or be taken in by the marketing of Whole Foods? The statement reads as a non-sequitur, and I'm not sure how it is relevant.

Whole Foods sells an image and a promise of organic, and I'm pretty sure they will meet the current US legal definition of organic for whatever they're selling. It's not a relevant factor for me when buying, but I wouldn't call people who do buy there "gullible", as I'm pretty sure Whole Foods is giving the customer exactly what they want.

I probably shouldn't have used liberals and derailed my thought with politics. I had more of a stereotype in my head that probably has less to do with politics, and more to do with having money, and a certain amount of guilt about money, and thinking you can use the money to ameliorate some of that guilt. This would be a very gullible stereotype to have as a customer and you could see how marketing would be tempted to go over the top making up new things to feel guilty about and new ways to spend money to feel less guilty about them.

I think it's much simpler than that. People that have the money to buy healthy food simply like to buy healthy food.

The food there is excellent. I'm not rich by any standard and I love shopping there because to me it is high quality. Go to a typical large grocery store deli, then go to Whole Foods deli, you can easily see which one is better.

I'm not sure where you came up with the "I feel guilty about the money I have so I'm going to spend it on foods that are healthy (or claim to be healthy, I'm not sure if you're making that connection or not)" construct. Seems like a reach.

Organic food has nothing to do with health. Organic refers to the type of fertilizers and pesticides used and is 100% a gimmick. Abandoning inorganic chemical fertilizers and pesticides would lead to mass starvation across the world. And in terms of the food quality, there is no evidence that it makes any meaningful difference.

Please, a lot of things like hormone and antibiotics fed vs non of that are not a gimmick, maybe just say you are reserved on the health benefits. Sure it's not specific to organic, but at least in Europe a big part of the specifications are meaningful.

I understand a certain lifestyle is annoying for some people and that a lot of bullshit is sold in organic stores (homeopathy, ...) and that not everything is healthy because it's "ancient and natural" but let's not confuse everything.

> Please, a lot of things like hormone and antibiotics fed vs non of that are not a gimmick, maybe just say you are reserved on the health benefits.

Worrying about hormones and antibiotics in meat and dairy while being concerned about health makes as much sense as worrying about the effects of filters in cigarettes while looking to avoid lung cancer. Animal products are unhealthy, and inhumane.

You can worry about the presence of these additives and drugs in plants and plant-based dishes that you eat. This is not even remotely connected to vegan / non-vegan products.

> You can worry about the presence of these additives and drugs in plants and plant-based dishes that you eat.

Do you understand the difference between plants and animals? Animal antibiotics and hormones are not applied to plants. Plants are not susceptible to diseases that can be transferred to humans. The pesticides that are sprayed on plants are entirely different chemicals. Plants have the least problems with heavy metal and toxin bioaccumulation because they are at the bottom of the food chain. The risks for contamination of animal and animal product foods are orders of magnitude greater than for plant based food. But all that ignores the fact that meat and dairy are inherently unhealthy for humans - they are carcinogenic and cause heart disease.

I know someone who, in the US, is allergic to non-organic milk but not organic milk. They can drink EU non-organic milk fine. Apparently this is due to the hormones fed to cattle in the US.

Being organic doesn't make food healthier. Whole Foods just seems to have paid attention to procuring good produce. For the premium they charge, they can afford to buy the best product.

> And in terms of the food quality, there is no evidence that it makes an iota of meaningful difference.

Some oranges are sweet, and make delicious orange juice. Some oranges are sour, and make sour orange juice. When I'm shopping for oranges, my first choice is locally-grown, then organic, then I might try whatever 'conventional' orange the store happens to carry. I find some stores to be more reliable for carrying decent oranges than others. I think Trader Joe's organic frozen orange juice is more reliable than the other frozen orange juices that I've tried.

tldr: IMO organic oranges are usually sweeter than non-organic; local > organic.

I'm not an expert in this field and am open minded about it if you have some evidence to share. I did a quick Google search and it looks like this is at the very least a disputed topic. Some research shows that there are some (albeit minimal) health benefits to organic food. Saying it is a gimmick seems wrong.

And I don't think anyone on the chain is arguing to abolish chemical fertilizers. We're talking about the health benefits of the food sold at Whole Foods, which may or may not be organic and/or contain certain additives.

The comment you responded to never said anything about organic food, they simply postulated that people shop at Whole Foods because they carry healthy food - which they do.

I used to live near a WF and shopped there semi-regularly. They definitely stock non-organic produce, and it's consistently of high quality. Likewise for their salad bar, bakery & hot meals.

It's not the only place in the world that stocks healthy food, but I can certainly see why people shop there.

I am making that connection. I don't think there's much difference between hawking homeopathic medicine and expensive "Veganic Sprouted Ancient Maize Flakes".

In Toronto, produce we buy at Whole Foods lasts longer once we get it home than any other market or supermarket, even Loblaws and our local market. Don't even get me started on Sobey's, fresh produce from Sobey's often spoils and goes into the green bin the next day.

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