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Comment by gavreh | Hacker News Reader

The vehicle in the image on the article does not look like an SUV, from a size perspective. Are there NTSB qualifications that designates something a "car" vs "SUV"?

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I think they call it a crossover, which is kind of a car / SUV hybrid.

Model X is 198″ L x 82″ W x 66″ H. A BMW x5 looks more like an SUV and is 192″ L x 76″ W x 69″ H so the BMW x5 is -6"L, -10"W, +3"H. (Or consider the 2009 Mercedes-Benz G-Class which very much looks like an SUV, but is again only 184″ L x 71-72″ W x 76″ H. https://www.cars.com/research/mercedes_benz-g_class-2009/)

For comparison a BMW 3 series is 182"L x 71.3"W x 56.3"H So it's -16 inches L, -10 inches W, -10 inches height.

82" is very wide for a vehicle in the US.

Even the Ford Excursion, one of the most gargantuan SUVs ever produced, was only 80" wide: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Excursion

I imagine parking a Model X is a challenge.

Shouldn't it be able to park itself...?

AFAIK that feature is just now about to be added in the next update. I don't know how well it works.

No, they just added the ability to auto-park unattended in a perpendicular spot. From launch, it was able to park itself without an occupant by driving straight into a spot head or tail first. With the driver still sitting in the car, it can parallel park as well as perpendicular park. Those parking features work fine, but I am looking forward to the unattended perpendicular parking as it is the most common parking scenario.

82" is not particularly wide - the Excursion was huge because it was long, not wide (it was a Ford SuperDuty pickup turned in to an SUV). The Jeep Grand Cherokee is 85" wide, the Explorer is 79", and to throw a minivan in to the mix, a Honda Odyssey is 80" wide.

No, they call it an SUV which it is. Crossovers are typically smaller with much lower towing capacity than the Model X.

Tesla calls it an SUV, but other people call it a crossover: ex: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/tesla/model-x

  Rankings
  #1 in Luxury Midsize SUVs
  #1 in Luxury SUVs with 3 Rows
  #2 in Luxury Crossover SUVs

Except it's rumored Tesla is working a Model Y crossover

I can't recall the exact numbers, but it has to do with the amount of storage volume with the rear seats up vs. down.

That's how Chrysler "hacked" CAFE -- they tweaked the size of the PT Cruiser such that it was counted as an SUV. That then allowed them to sell a boatload of higher margin trucks without having to pay the gas guzzler tax.

You're thinking of the EPA car classification, which is defined for the purposes of comparing fuel economy amongst similar vehicles. It is one of many vehicle classification systems in use by the US government, but it does not apply to the NHTSA.

These things are all over the place in San Francisco, and are definitely SUV size

No - National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 1381 et seq.) places the responsibility for classifying a particular vehicle in the first instance on the vehicle's manufacturer. The NHTSA follows that model, and while technically they could disagree with a manufacturer and over-rule them for the purposes of safety testing, I don't believe that happens very often if at all.

For the record, from a 'size perspective', the Model X is much bigger in person than it looks in photos, and fits well in to the cohort of vehicles calling themselves SUVs.

The Model X is most certainly an SUV from a size perspective.

You're confusing its shape for its size. Likely it's slopped rear hatch vs the vertical rear hatch of that gives the box shape you associate with SUVs.

For the record SUV stands for Sport Utility Vehicle and thought there's not really one set of characteristics or definition for them, their utility is typically the thing that defines them. This might include things like passenger and cargo capacity, off road capability like ground clearance and 4wd, on road capabilities like towing capacity, etc.

agreed...That looks like a crossover, not a proper SUV. When I think SUV, I think about a Toyota 4Runner.

It doesn't matter. If you look at the IIHS categories, it doesn't make a distinction between crossover and SUV.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings

The distinction between Crossover and SUV are mostly marketing and some technical differences. Mostly, the underpinning of a crossover is a unibody platform, whereas SUVs are generally body on frame. However that technical distinction is also marketing driven.

Yep. And a lot of SUVs these days are not really SUVs in the traditional sense. The thing about the Tesla that gets me is that you can't even really put a roof rack on it because of the doors. Which for a lot of people I know (including myself) who drive SUVs would be a complete showstopper.

More than anything, an up right vehicle with a hatchback is likely slotted into the SUV category.

The utility of the roof for carrying cargo is not a factor for determining private passenger vehicle category.

I always assumed the frunk was way more useful than a roofrack

Bikes, skies, canoe and so on. All stuff you can put on a roof rack, but not in the frunk.

There are probably ways to mount bikes or skis in the back. (The bike rack on my SUV is actually in the back--which has pros and cons.) But I need a boat rack and there's no way around that. Plus the odd pieces of lumber, etc.

Worth mentioning that that the Model X is longer and wider than a 4Runner. The 4Runner is taller though.

I remember having to rent a "minivan" in Ireland to transport my friend's harp. It wasn't too much larger than a lot of US "hatchbacks." (But it was still a bit harrowing for me to drive it on those country roads.)

Huh? Have you seen a model X? Are you making assumption of the vehicle's size from a single image lacking reference points?

Rest assured, it is indeed a picture of the model X SUV

I've seen them, driven them, etc. I have plenty of friends that own them. They are very different from the average SUV in shape, etc.

Nobody would ever confuse them for any other SUV.

Does this still make them SUV's? I guess technically?

If other SUV makers wanted to make aerodynamic vehicles, they'd look like Model X. Still, if you see a Model X parked next to a normal car, it looks like an SUV to me.

Most people i've talked to think they are "amorphous blobs"

I see tons of them parked next to normal cars and SUVs, and to me, they look like night and day :)

Like, if you showed 1000 random people them, and asked them to identify the type of car, i'm pretty sure you wouldn't get a super-high percentage of "SUV"

But this is all just conjecture :)

Shape is not what defines SUVs

How are they different? All crossovers are designed to resemble SUVs. If you are only focusing on the exterior look n' feel, you are missing the point.

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