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Comment by ihaveajob | Hacker News Reader

I take issue with the way moderate drinking is defined in this and other studies. Drinking, like the article states, "about 5 to 7 beers or 6 to 8 glasses of wine" in one week is very different if you have one beer a day, or if you drink the same amount on a Saturday night outing.

In Mediterranean countries it's pretty common to have a glass with some/most meals, but the regular weekend binging is a relatively new practice. Perhaps that explains overall population health differences with Anglo countries.

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Everyone takes issue with this definition, except the medical community, which has used this standard for decades, to account for how reasonable people consume drinks casually.

It's important to inspect the effects of drinking, even at doses perceived as low. This isn't about college kids killing their brain cells by partying. It's about long term health effects.

Three beers a day, spaced out over 16 hours, as one per meal, will still ruin your liver over decades. It's bad for you. This is pretty common information, and is important to understand, since people tend to find this counter-intuitive. Three beers a day, evenly spaced, sounds like moderation and good behavior.

The new information here says that even one unit a day is still bad for you, even if one unit of a specific type of alcohol (perhaps wine) might provide for a trade of hazards versus benefits.

"Three beers a day, spaced out over 16 hours, as one per meal, will still ruin your liver over decades."

Almost certainly not.

"Of all chronic heavy drinkers, only 15–20% develop hepatitis or cirrhosis, which can occur concomitantly or in succession."[1]

Not only do many chronic, heavy drinkers not ruin their livers, but further "three beers a day" would not even come close to any definition of chronic, heavy drinking.

I certainly think it's a bad idea and not something I, myself, would practice - simply because of the effects on athletic output and exercise regimes, etc. However, you very badly mischaracterize the behavior you've given an example of.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_liver_disease

From your cited link:

  Quantity of alcohol taken: Consumption of 60–80g per 
  day (14g is considered one standard drink in the USA; 
  drinking a six-pack of beer daily would be at the top 
  of the range) for 20 years or more in men, or 20g/day 
  (about 25 mL/day) for women significantly increases the 
  risk of hepatitis and fibrosis by 7% to 47%

  Pattern of drinking: Drinking outside of meal times 
  increases up to 3 times the risk of alcoholic liver 
  disease.

Okay, so my numbers were measurably low, by your citation. 6 beers daily, and at least some outside of meals.

But, in conversation, people still roll their eyes at those numbers, because they still sound like low numbers.

Regardless, this new evidence claims that ONE UNIT DAILY results in measurable health problems.

> but further "three beers a day" would not even come close to any definition of chronic, heavy drinking.

That's a weird thing to say.

Assume a 330 ml bottle of beer at 5%. That's 1.65 units per bottle; 4.95 units per day. If we only do 6 days, and have one day drink free we get 29 units, which is double the recommended level of 14 units a week.

You're certainly increasing your risk of a wide range of disease, including a number of cancers, by drinking this much.

"You're certainly increasing your risk of a wide range of disease, including a number of cancers, by drinking this much."

Perhaps. Neither the op nor I were discussing that.

He specifically mentioned "ruin(ing) your liver". I believed that to be inaccurate. Wikipedia ensued.

> "about 5 to 7 beers or 6 to 8 glasses of wine" in one week is very different if you have one beer a day, or if you drink the same amount on a Saturday night outing.

Is this true?

Binge drinking is more harmful, so don't binge.

But people incorrectly think you can just spread out the drinks over a week and be fine, Drinking one glass (275 ml, not that big) of wine (12%, not that strong) every day is something like 23 units. We know that's increasing risks of a range of harm.

EDIT: I got my mls wrong! (Thanks mattmanser for pointing this out).

175 * 12 = just over 2 units.

275ml is half a pint, or one VERY LARGE glass, so, yes it is that big. That's over a third of a bottle of wine.

UK standard measures are 125ml small, 175ml medium, 250ml large.

175ml is a normal glass of wine and is 2.3 units, or 16 units a week. 23 units is 2 and a bit bottles of wine.

You've got your units wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/sp...

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/alcohol/Pages/alcohol-units.aspx

Who is "we"?

Having done both, it certainly feels true. I can't speak for my liver, though.

The articles "moderate" would actually be an increase in alcohol consumption for most Americans. As the vast majority of adults drink less than 3 drinks a week.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

As a Mediterranean man, my perception (possibly biased, of course), is that 6 to 8 glasses of wine a week seem excessive as a standard for moderate consumption. I think I drink moderately, and in the last 3 weeks I had two, maybe three glasses of wine and maybe 5 beers.

Weekend binging is more excessive for younger people, but I don't see people my age drinking in working hours, only older men.

Cheers!

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