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Comment by dejv | Hacker News Reader

We have similar educational system here in Czech Republic. There are numerous pros and cons. Basically at the age of 15 you have to choose what you want to do with your life as changing careers are not that simple. And lets be honest, most of 15 years old kids have no idea what they want to spend rest of their life doing.

I did take this technical route (focusing on electronics, computer networking and programming) and it give me some edge when I started my CS degree, but further study of medicine, law or even art is out of question as I don't had any theoretical basics for those majors. All I study during my high school was mathematics, physics and specialised subjects.

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In america you are required to take english, math, physics, chemistry etc. in high school. I am just talking about the post high school years.

Well, it is different system here and in Germany. Vocational study or technical high school is limiting your choices of uni and career paths.

Post high school you either go work (you already spent few years on the job during school) or uni.

There are tons of jobs that are closed to you when you choose wrong path at the age of 14 or 15 and it is really hard to change the tracks.

It is good system for manufacturing companies and economy, but not that great for some people.

I'm quite sure this isn't correct. You can always take extra courses and go to university. However, there is no point in everyone doing that.

What makes it really hard to change tracks? I imagine if there were enough political will, that's a solvable problem.

It's not true. At least for Germany. Take a friend of mine for example: He went to Hauptschule (Germany has a 3-tier school system where children are split up after primary school, Hauptschule is for the least skilled children). He left Hauptschule a year early with very bad grades to start an apprenticeship with a carpenter. After three years of school and practival training he graduated to journeyman with honors (i.e. all grades: A). This gives you a scholarship for master school or college (if you want). He chose master school and earned the master craftsman degree. He finished that with honors, too and got another scholarship. Now he actually went to university to get a bachelor in something called wood-technology.

In many academic traits it's actually beneficial to go for an apprenticeship first. Architects often become carpenters of masons before studying architecture, a friend of mine who's a nurse got her Dr. med. last week. The list could go on for a while.

But thats one track. Say you went carpenter route when you were 15 and now you want to study medicine or electronics or CS. You are going to lack basic background: even with master school it is really going to be tough to learn all the chemistry, mathematics, biology or physics that is required for those majors.

The system is build as a training for just one type of work and nothing more. (if we are not talking about gymnasiums) So changing tracks means starting from zero again. It is doable, but very few people want to start again in class full of 15 years old, second problem is money: there is nothing like student loans. Also society will view as a failure.

In germany you do this when you are 18, after your Abitur usually.

Thats case for gymnasiums, right? How about other type of schools? Are they still popular? Here in Czech rep. those vocational only schools are kind of dyin.

yeah, what he says is wrong.

there are classes with older pupils (~19-30 years old), but they're the minority. most are, as you kindly noted before, between 15 and 18.

and i honestly can't agree on this constant praise for this system. i'm just finishing with my apprenticeship and the school part was a total joke. i think the highlight of my time there was me entering the class and saying 'good morning' to the teacher, who responded with 'shut up, i want to sleep'. which was followed by 270 minutes of "self study" on the internet.

and the payment for this exercise is a joke as well. you actually get less than our social security (hartz iv) would be giving you for doing nothing.

Same here. The concept is partially good, but it isn't done right. I'd prefer a more modular system with a lot more self studying. Nevertheless it's still better than what many other countries do.

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