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Comment by gordon_freeman | Hacker News Reader

I am happy Android user as well and own Nexus 6P. One thing I tell everyone is that N6P takes as good photos as iPhone7/7P but Google is doing so poor job in communicating that through their marketing.

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I had my 2013 Nexus 5 until it died, even after that one software update killed performance with no change in features.

I wanted to buy a Pixel XL. They weren't available. I live and work near mountain view. They were sold out even if you sign up for Google Fi (a trick a Googler friend suggested). I'm already on Google Voice so Fi would be awesome.

Could not get them for weeks.

I got tired of waiting and bought an iPhone 7 Plus. I love it. I dislike the closed software interface but don't want Samsung bloat so I saw it as the best other option. The hardware is great and I found out a lot of my friends are on iMessage. iCloud doesn't try to do creepy things. I like the fingerprint scanner.

I would have loved to try the Pixel.

Sometimes feels like Communism vs Capitalism. I love the idea of an Android phone, but the "Samsung bloat" and the rest terrify me. Conceptually I hate Apple's closed ecosystem but it's secure, they seem to take privacy very seriously, and it Just Works Really Well, almost all the time.

Wait, which one's communism and which one's capitalism in this scenario?

I'd assume that "capitalism" is meant to refer to Android, with its open competition among as many vendors as want to build hardware that can support the OS, while "communism" refers to iOS, whose ecosystem is by comparison strictly defined and controlled from the Supreme Soviet in Cupertino.

I don't think the comparison works, though, both because smartphone users are free to choose whether or not to participate in Apple's ecosystem, and because Apple's incentives are aligned with the desires of its current and potential customers in ways that those of communist regimes historically have not been.

An alternative perspective, only vaguely serious... "All Androids are Equal, but some are more Equal than others". [1] Android is open and free, and in theory, everyone cooperates, but in reality its just a cess pit of corruption. "Free" means "free to log your keypresses", "free to kill your battery" etc. And as with all good communist wonderlands, someone (Samsung) resents the ideals and is turning the place into a dictatorship. Whereas Capitalism is nothing without regulation (at minimum a police force). The iOS market is where commerce happens.

[1] http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6466-all-animals-are-equal-b...

The "Samsung bloat" is a thing of the past .. The new phones come with more restrained and thoughtful touches that enhances the phone.

No worries, they listened and they got your back https://www.xda-developers.com/samsungs-partnership-with-mca...

Want some mcafee with your s8? No? Well sucks being you...

Good job you install your own preferred flavour of android on it, then.

Custom ROM's are an unstable mess on most Android devices, Samsung being particularly notorious for poor developer support. Don't be surprised when 911 calls don't work [1] [2] [3] [4].

[1] http://www.androidcentral.com/cyanogenmod-team-dropping-supp...

[2] https://forum.xda-developers.com/note-3-tmobile/help/tmobile...

[3] https://plus.google.com/+CyanogenMod/posts/ePeEX2TRTYg

[4] https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/5lek7o/couldnt...

I don't care to compile my own, and I want a version I can trust; I want to be able to sue someone if it violates my privacy. What are my options?

Moto phones are pretty legit software-wise. Almost stock Android. They do have some very useful features however for what they offer (gestures and such).

They are owned by Lenovo though. Since ownership their OS updates have been much more regular. YMMV.

Well those first two points are completely contradictory so I won't even bother humouring the rest.

Pretty sure the bootloaders on branded devices are locked, are they not?

Not an issue I've ever had to deal with, I buy my phones, not get them on my contract.

The reason I switched to an iPhone from a Samsung S6 was that one day when I woke up I got a notification stating something like "We've installed you some microsoft apps". The same day I went to my local Apple store and bought an iPhone. What stops them doing this kind of things in the future?

Like Apple installing some U2 album on your iPhone?

Not dissimilar, but I wouldn't put them in the same league. U2 was added as a purchased album to iTunes accounts.

Right, unless you had auto-download of purchases explicitly enabled, nothing was pushed onto phones. And with the backlash it received, I doubt they'll ever do that again (they even stopped their 12 days of Christmas giveaways).

Non-executable content is really quite different from my perspective.

Defining "non-executable" is then an interesting exercise...

From https://scarybeastsecurity.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/redux-comp...

> You’ve likely guessed it by now, but the Linux gstreamer media playback framework supports playback of SNES music files by…. emulating the SNES CPU and audio processor, courtesy of Game Music Emu. How cool is that?

I think the main difference (and I'm not saying Apple cannot do the same maybe at some point in the future) is between an app is downloading something inside that app and the OS is installing an app. A lot of app are connecting in the background to servers and downloading data without always asking permission. But in general the OS should not install something without asking explicitly.

To be fair didn't Apple stick a bunch of crappy music or something on everyone's phones and suffer quite the backlash?

I mean, I personally feel that it's likely they learnt from that but would not suggest it's not something they couldn't do again.

Edit: must not comment without refreshin page first

I don't understand the uproar about this. Giving away free music is vastly different then installing random apps in my opinion.

This is a rather empirical test, but it's the one that defines my view of smartphones at the moment.

Walking up to a demo Pixel in a retail store and flipping the menu slider opens the menu without a single dropped frame.

Walking up to a new S8 and dragging upwards opens the menu somewhat glitchily, with noticeable lag, and with a few dropped frames.

There weren't many dropped frames, and the lag was all but unnoticeable. I'd wager that a lot of people would never even notice the lag and glitchiness was there. But unfortunately my reactivity to smoothness becomes pathologically sensitive approaching the 95th percentile - so if something's hilariously horrible, I'll live with it, but if something drops a single frame, I don't want anything to do with it.

Sure, you can judge that as stupid, but the way my brain sees it, you either get sorted into the bucket of "you made no effort and you're terrible" and "ooooooooooooo." If you wind up on the edge of the bucket I get really bad uncanny valley. :/

(Another way to look at it is to say that if you put me on a moped that can't go beyond 60mph, I'll get used to it, but if you put me in an Autobahn simulator where traffic jams can abruptly appear beyond corners and then later on just as abruptly disappear... well... suffice to say I might start physically breaking things.)

I'll also acknowledge that I have absolutely no idea what was running on both phones - and that the Pixel's store demo mode had probably reset the phone and killall'd everything so it was nice and snappy.

But in my case that sells the Pixel to me hands down (I have no idea how responsive it actually is). Hey Samsung, implement a demo mode!

I am really looking forward to Fuschia. 120fps target? Yes please!!!

Backing you up as no idea why you're downvoted. Got an S8 yesterday and there is next to nothing on it. It comes with some MS apps preinstalled, a handful of Samsung apps (voice recorder, health, Bixby, Samsung's browser) .. and that is literally all the cruft I've encountered and it was all mostly avoidable.

In case anyone else is in this boat, the Moto Z is a pretty good third option. Not quite as pricey as the Pixel, (and the camera's not as amazing), but it's very close to stock Android.

I'm _still_ using a 2013 Moto X. I've been ready to upgrade for a couple years, but nothing matches the requirements of: decent specs, stock Android, and <= 5". Apparently all the NBA players quit and became high-end phone designers three years ago.

Every now and then I toy with the idea of getting the latest iPhone. Another year of this old thing and I might get fed up enough to switch.

2013 Moto X here, too. I recently replaced the battery and it's been great to get through a full day again, but I'm nervous about the day when this thing actually dies. I'm looking for something with those 3 requirements as well, and it's incredible how few options there are.

The Pixel 5" meets the requirements, but it's still out of stock and $750(!). Otherwise the iPhone (same price) is the only other stock-OS, decent spec, <= 5" phone I'm aware of.

I have pretty much the same requirements (Stock-OS, Decent Specs, Not Huge).

With no love for apple, I recommend (from personal experience) buying an iPhone SE.

Edit: I mention the SE specifically because it is not the same price. $400 vs $750

I got myself a G5 Plus, with amazing price\performance. The camera is not that nice, yes, but so was the camera of my now-barely-working Nexus 5.

> I had my 2013 Nexus 5 until it died, even after that one software update killed performance with no change in features.

I was in your same boat. I will only use the Google Android phones, and even they had random issues. Got an iPhone 7 plus and for the most part it just works. I do keep my software phone agnostic so I could switch back, so we'll see what the iPhone 8/next Pixel bring.

I am still using my Nexus 5 from 2013. Could I ask which specific software update killed performance if you can remember off the top of your head?

you know there is thing called custom ROMs right? every heard of CyanogenMod (aka Lineage OS now)? so much for problems with certain updates or Samsung bloat. there are also more brands than Pixel and Samsung

Yup. I've been an Android owner since the T-Mobile G1, then I had a Nexus One, Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy S4 and then Nexus 5. Especially on the Nexus One and Galaxy Nexus I was all about custom ROMs, but it becomes a several hour project to install custom ROMs and you often have to try more than one ROM to find the right one. I don't want more projects, so I just can't be bothered to mess with that anymore. I just want a stable phone.

Nexus 6P isn't even available in my country (Brazil) other than in Ebay-like places.

iPhones 5/6/7 on the other hand, are everywhere, even if they cost a kidney. Nobody outside bubble wants a Nexus 6P.

There are hundreds or thousands of fitness people making a living on Instagram, promoting healthy products mixed with booty shots. 99% percent of them have an iPhone as the only tool they need to do their job.

Yeah, while Google, Apple and formerly Motorola refuse to properly sell their phones we are enjoying hundreds of Chinese and Korean models, some of them even better than those phones from Default Country. Apple can bruteforce by brand image even through unofficial resellers but Google can't and don't want apparently.

So IOS share must be very strong in Brazilian markets: It's above 4%.

https//www.neowin.net/news/kantar-android-sales-up-in-most-markets-ios-down-in-china-windows-phone-sales-fall-again

No - everybody wants an iPhone. Everybody has an Android, which they probably paid 200 to 300 USD in 6 to 12 monthly parcels.

An iPhone 7 costs 3 to 4 monthly "minimum wages" (300 USD) here.

I was talking about trend setters, media people, higher class, and elites...

The interesting data would be the market share of iOS vs Android among only the people who can actually afford an iPhone

The only data I could find right now: devices used while searching for flights. Google translate with minor fixes:

"The savings continues to matter more than comfort, as indicated in the survey published in 2015. Economy class concentrates 96% of searches for flights performed on all platforms, while the executive account for 3%. (...) Regarding business class flights, the iPhone is the most used device, with 5.1%, followed by 2.7% via Desktop and 1.4% via Android."

Nexus 5X has exactly the same back camera, it takes pretty good pictures, software optimisation may have a lot to do with photo qualities as if you run LineageOS / CyanogenMod, you won't be getting as good photos for sure.

The problem with the Nexus 5X/6P is the poor build quality. While Pixel takes even better photos but the price? Execuse me, I am not going to pay AUD 1,296 for Pixel X 32GB (I got an iPhone 7 Plus 256GB for AUD 1,250 to replace the dead Nexus 5X for good).

Though guess Google's selling point on the smaller disk space is that it has unlimited cloud back-up for original quality photos & video.

Know you're locked in to their platform, but the ease of having photos/vids synced directly to Google Photos is quite nice with my Nexus 5, so feels like a big plus if I were to buy a Pixel and start shooting 4k video.

That said, still can't get over that high a price tag to go out & buy one.

Poor job communicating it? Saying that they had the best rated smartphone camera of all time was one of their main points during their Pixel ad campaign.

Pixel had an ad campaign?

They had a good ad campaign, but a terrible distribution program. My mom really wanted to get a Pixel, but the "only on Verizon" thing threw her, and she didn't know how to get one on AT&T.

Pixel???

Yeah, you remember, google's really fancy chromebook.

Ooh, no wait, their phone line, after they killed "Nexus" despite building a solid brand behind that for a few years. To call it the same thing that their original Chromebook was called was just insult to injury. Whoever manages their branding obviously has no idea what they're doing. See also: "Google Apps" is now G Suite. Why? This is their official answer, along with a table to reference for what all the new names are, along with this brilliant bit about the change: """ We created Google Apps to help people everywhere work and innovate together, so organizations can move faster and achieve more. On September 29, 2016, we introduced a new name that better reflects this mission: G Suite. """ https://support.google.com/a/answer/7126147?hl=en

Given their history, the next name (due in 2018) shall be "GCloud" or "Cloud by Google".

Pixel? That's their tablet, right? Nexus is for their audio device.

Nope, it was a Chromebook with the world's first 2560x1700 display AFAIK.

Yeah.

That amazing device with no internal storage thereby hampering its usage as a really great Linux device?

Such a waste :-(

You joke, but I am really confused what is the "official" Google phone and what is not.

First, there was the Nexus One by HTC, then Nexus S by Samsung, then Galaxy Nexus by Samsung (how is that different than Galaxy S* series?), a bunch in between that were no less confusing, and now there's a Pixel.

The Nexus branding seems to have been tied to the manufacturer, which only added to my confusion. I just want to know what is the Google sanctioned phone.

So yes, they didn't do a very good job at marketing their brand and setting it apart from the "clones".

The Nexus always were partnerships with manufacturers, but as far as I know everything that was called Nexus was an iteration of "the Google sanctioned phone"

I think the unifying feature of the Nexus line was that they all ran stock Android, or close to it. The Galaxy Nexus did, anyway.

Pixel by HTC

I think you overestimate the reach of their ad campaign.

Not in North America. We were inundated with Pixel ads on TV during the launch and well after.

Last time I checked in, there's a building sized Pixel ad visible from the 10 freeway in downtown Los Angeles.

The world's largest online add seller, doing billboard advertising. Speaks volumes.

TV? What's that?

That's not a good ad campaign. Every marketing campaign says they are the "best" or "highest rated" to some degree by finding some study or review that reinforces their marketing campaign. It's become noise at this point, even if it's true.

I just moved back to an iPhone after a year of 6P ownership on Fi and I gotta say I don't think the camera is nearly as good. My two qualms were low light performance and the time-to-shoot after tapping the shutter button. My 6P would take annoyingly long (presumably to focus/adjust?) before taking the first shot, but the iPhone is ready immediately. Overall I quite enjoyed 6P ownership but missed the ecosystem/handoff I had before.

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