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Comment by function_seven | Hacker News Reader

> In fact, despite all that's happened in the US, in Europe they're still getting away with it today.

Is that a result of weak regulators, or weak regulation? Or both? (Genuine question, I know diesel is much more popular in Europe than in the US)

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Here in Europe all or most of the major carmakers had been infringing the "Euro N" emission protocols set by the EU. The now current Euro 6 is however quite restrictive and is in effect since 2014/2015. Despite Euro 6 being twice as permissive as EPA-standards, diesel cars emissions are actually an order of magnitude higher than most current standards, so if they remain within Euro 6 boundaries that would be great news. Apparently that is the case now for new cars in the market since Sep/2015.

NOx wasn't taken too seriously in the EU by member states until recently and many countries were not fining or prosecuting carmakers [1]. This is probably a result of hard-fought car plant concessions each member state has to make to get these valuable blue-collar jobs from going somewhere else. The mindset is changing now due to raised awareness by VW-gate but also the continuous struggle some large cities such as Paris, Madrid, London, Athens and Rome are having to keep smog levels under control [2]. So, in general, we can say the EU, public and cities are putting pressure, but states are still very lenient and reluctant and are seeking long-term exemptions [3].

I believe the EU is too dependent on heavy NOx-emitting diesel cars to take drastic regulatory measures, so diesel is being pushed out by the cities with upcoming taxation and city-limits restrictions. If the trend follows, taxation, and not regulation, will be the NOx deterrent in the coming years [4].

[1] http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-17-238_en.htm

[2] http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/paris-cuts-harmful-...

[3] http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21714991-europe-should...

[4] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/11018725/This-diese...

To decrease NOx emissions the engine temperature has to be decreased which is equal to lower engine efficiency. It means more fuel consumption and more COx emissions.

When will CO2 obsessed bureaucrats begin to care about fine particles emitted by gasoline direct injection engines?

In the EU, with Euro 5+6 particulate limits for gasoline engines have been imposed as well. The previous rationale was "no limits are required because particulates are a diesel issue", which is bonkers because if it were so, one could simply apply the same limits to both and the gasoline engines would have passed with flying colours. My guess is heavy lobbying from automakers managed to keep these unregulated for so long, since indeed direct injection (which seems to be the new norm) makes fuel economy better but particulates worse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Em...

To decrease NOx emissions the engine temperature has to be decreased which is equal to lower engine efficiency.

There are other ways to reduce NOx emissions, such as selective catalytic reduction (SCR) with urea ("AdBlue") injection. This technology is pretty standard on modern HGVs, but rare on light diesels.

diesel cars emissions are actually an order of magnitude higher than most current standards, so if they remain within Euro 6 boundaries that would be great news. Apparently that is the case now for new cars in the market since Sep/2015.

Unfortunately many (most?) diesel cars being sold today still emit far in excess of the Euro 6 specification in real-world conditions.

The EQUA air quality index assigns ratings (A to H) to vehicles based on how they perform in real world conditions. The number of diesel models that are getting G or H grades (indicating they emit at least 12X more NOx than the Euro 6 specification allows) is quite alarming:

http://equaindex.com/equa-air-quality-index/

The German government, the traffic minister in particular, are disgracefully downplaying the problem and working hard to water down any new regulations to the point where they don't threaten the status quo.

However, cities may well reverse the government's efforts, because they have a duty to limit the (real, measured) inner city pollution. So cheating on the dyno won't help car makers.

The downside is that the cities' only regulatory approach is more heavy-handed: things like banning all diesel vehicles on particularly bad days, etc.

But it might sour diesels for citizens, so all the lobbying efforts may well have been for naught.

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