Comment by VLM | Hacker News Reader

Comment by VLM | Hacker News Reader

Its fascinating to see problems in other states. Locally (thousands of miles from CA) the "new urbanists" have a stealth strategy for discouraging car use which is to write ridiculous handicapped requirements into zoning laws. So new stores have to have 20 to 30 handicapped spots to discourage car use by the 99% unhandicapped customers. So no matter how big your parking lot is, and how packed it is with customers, roughly 20% of spots will always be empty. Its an interesting strategy for banning cars, they're not technically banning cars from parking, its just parking now requires a handicap tag. It has the pleasant side effect that even at major sporting events I've never actually seen a parking lot with all handicapped spots filled, which must be very convenient for handicapped people.

There are other problems. I used to work with a guy in a wheelchair and life for those people is hell, at least once a week when his non-handicapped brother picked him up in the lift van after work, some do-gooder would scream at his brother for being evil enough to park in a handicapped spot, he would even get blocked in until the cops arrive, do-gooders just make life for everyone awful.

1 in 5 people has a disability (https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/miscellane...).

Not all of those justify an handicapped parking spot, but way more than 1% of the population deserves one.

If a store has 99% handicapped customers, it's only because it's actually hostile to people with an handicap.

The 18% statistic, from reading the actual tables, lumps all kinds of disabilities together: everything from blind, to Alzheimer's, to ADHD is counted. Only about 1.5% of the population uses a weelchair, and another 4-5% are on crutches or walkers. (See https://www.census.gov/people/disability/publications/disab1...)

Then you have to subtract those whom are too elderly to drive or own a car in the first place, 5% would seem extremely generous.

Ummm, no, you don't subtract those people. Those people have handicapped passes, they are for use for when they are passengers. Disabled children also have passes too.

At least in my state.

Source: personal experience knowing at least 5 non-motorist (and personally driving them) and 3 children with disabled platecards. My grandma (never knew how to drive) kept hers in my mom's car since my mom was the one driving her 95% of the time. It actually didn't make any sense for her to have one though because she was always pushed in a wheelchair by a non-disabled person.

Just because you aren't disabled doesn't mean you can't get a disabled placard. The parent of a disabled child or the caretaker of a disabled senior can get a tag as long as they are only using it while they are with the disabled person.

And zoning laws are purely local as are demographics. So the extremely wealthy burb next door with the reputation of being full of old people might actually need 20% handicapped parking especially if the strip mall has a pharmacy or outpatient clinic. Where I live, not so much, but if a small flash mob of handicapped people descended upon my favorite independent grocery store it ALWAYS has about 30 handicapped spots empty and available. I swear most of those spots have never been parked in. No "leakage strip" that normal parking spots accumulate.

A handicapped flash mob would honestly be kind of cool.

You alluded to this. What's the ratio of disabled people who also drive? What about to that type of establishment? E.g., grocery store, gym, etc. Is it less than or greater than 20%? That answer would be a statistic for determining the number of handicapped spaces to require.

You are allowed to use someone else's disabled placard in your car if you are dropping them off or picking them up. So whether or not someone is capable of driving has no bearing on space utilization.

If 5% of the population is "disabled" for the purposes of a handicapped parking sticker, do we need 5% of the parking spaces reserved for them? No. All the disabled people can't be in all the disabled spots at the same time. You must consider usage rates. If all 5% of the handicapped population is using only 10% of the handicapped spots at any one time, we would only need .5% of a parking lot to be handicapped spots.

This program has good intentions, but it needs to be more precise about how many parking spots are actually needed, and who actually needs them.

I'm not convinced that's how the math works. I can just as easily conclude that if all 95% of the non-handicapped population is using only 10% of the non-handicapped spots at any one time, we would only need 9.5% of a parking lot to be non-handicapped spots.

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