Comment by crispyambulance | Hacker News Reader

Comment by crispyambulance | Hacker News Reader

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crispyambulance

Italy has had the coffee bar figured out for about a century:

* Espresso costs about 1 euro, 2 for cappuccino, 2.5-ish for almost any croissant/pastry.

* Customers come in order/pay, stand at a bar to have their drink, all done in about 10 minutes max.

* Staff consists of a middle-aged barista with a bow-tie who pulls flawless espresso shots like a locomotive and a surly lady who handles the money + orders.

* In the evening, add a waitress and serve a limited menu of aperitivo and some specialties.

The expectations are, of course, different in the US. I think there are ways to make it work (1), but yeah, if you want to have that special chilled-out shabby-chic space typified by independent early-90's coffee houses, be prepared to make meager precarious wages at best. Virtually all of NYC is off-limits for such enterprises now because of rent.

(1) For example, this new place in Philly, informal lunch/cafe during the day, trendy byob at night: http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/craig_laban/20170430...

Interesting. There is such a place in Austin, Texas [0]. Its my go to coffeeshop for working remotely as its rather empty during the day, and I wondered how they remain in business. But they're quite popular as a gelato/bar later in the evening and I believe that is where they make their most profits.

[0]: Dolce Vita, they don't have a website, but here is a link to them on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dolce+Vita/@30.3043196,-97...

Still, interesting... across from Mother's (a 1980 new comer). I can tell you that there has been an ice cream shop right there continuously for 47 years. Location, location, location.

Very different expectations in the US market I have found. People want to drink their filter coffee or large, milky espresso drinks while they sit comfortably with their laptops using the free wifi. No comparison to the average Italian who wants to down a quick espresso and be on their way.

Australian cafes make out like bandits these days. They're basically breakfast/lunch restaurants that serve great espresso based drinks, mostly don't offer wifi and have no problem moving customers along if they stop buying drinks so they can cycle the table space for new customers.

Yeah, the first time you show an Italian a "venti mocha frappuccino" from Starbucks, the WTF-look on their face is priceless.

I don't know how popular they are now, but about 13 years ago I was vacationing in Anchorage, AK and there were many "coffee shacks." Simple sheds with at most two people working, that sold fairly good coffee/espresso and a few pastries through a window. Unless one was near a park there was no where to sit, so you got your coffee and left.

A few years later I noticed that there were some franchises springing up with the same model, but the entry prices were insane. Might as well start a McDonald's!

Anyway, my point is that perhaps the expectations in the US are regional and in some locations, the model you're describing might work.

The place you linked in Philly is a few blocks from my house. I've been a handful of times. Much more of a restaurant. I think it is a good example of a place trying to do too many things. As a coffee shop it is pretty sub par. It does not have a good vibe during the day. There are much better proper coffee shops within a few block radius.

Of course I am just one anecdote. They could be doing amazing.

Yes, you're right that it isn't a "coffee house". The coffee house game is played expertly in philly by several places each of which serves up excellent coffee: Joe, Elixr, La Colombe, Rival, and a few more. Depending on the time of day, they're decidedly not the kind of independent coffee-house vibe the author was going for. La Colombe, for example, is branching out beyond just having a few coffee houses in a few cities-- they're marketing product as well.

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