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Comment by tostitos1979 | Hacker News Reader

tostitos1979

Did you make FU money during the last boom? I missed it. 38 now ... don't really see a path out of the rat race.

Nope, just lived below my means and invested the surplus in equities and real estate. Didn't move to SF/BA (too expensive), didn't buy new cars, don't eat out all of the time, don't buy a new iPhone every time a new version is released, no cable, no Starbucks, etc.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-...

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim...

With ~$600k in investment assets, you'll generate ~$24k/year in dividends. A family of three traveling the world via sailboat can comfortably live on that (note I mentioned "semi-retired"; I still plan on doing consulting occasionally when I require topping up the freedom chips account).

I wish everyone in the developed world understood and internalized this perspective. That goes double for software engineers, who are well-paid relative to the median wage almost anywhere in the world.

The rat race is totally opt-in. If you're getting paid as a software engineer in the USA[1] and you're making market rate for where you live, you can easily save >>50% of your salary and retire in 10 years. And really, what you're buying with those savings are options. If you love what you're doing, no one will force you to quit once you've accumulated FU money. For me personally, even money says I keep on working in my same career with little change. But the point is that it then becomes my decision, not something imposed on me. It changes your perspective (and stress level).

[1]: The US is an unusually good place for software engineers from this perspective: by moving from London back to Seattle I was able to nearly double my market rate while modestly lowering my cost of living. But even in London, it was possible to save a substantial fraction of each paycheck.

I'm wondering how such a person will cope with unexpected medical expenses in old age that aren't covered by medicare.

As a US citizen, perhaps immigrating to a country with universal health care is a necessity.

Come to think of it, the rat race really is a fear driven thing. Fear of not having health care when you need it, fear of not having retirement income, fear of keeping up pretenses of "success" vs your peers and classmates, etc.

I say the same thing every time this comes up: I don't want to live like that, and neither do many, many people.

I like driving nice, new-ish cars, eating out, using the latest technology, drinking Starbucks or whatever coffee I want and having fun, even if it isn't cheap (when I can afford it). I'm not alone here.

I'm glad you've found a way to enjoy life on little means, but trying to say that it's the best way to live is disingenuous.

$600k in savings and investments means nothing if I'm not doing things I don't like. Money is made to be spent.

It's entirely true money is made to be spent. I'd just rather buy my own time back instead of spending it on unnecessary luxury items.

But then, I don't feel sorry when someone has to work their entire life to retire; that's their choice too.

If you're getting paid as a software engineer in the USA[1] and you're making market rate for where you live, you can easily save >>50% of your salary and retire in 10 years.

Not well in the Bay Area, at least.

Since I'm currently living and working on the San Francisco peninsula, I can actually speak to this from experience. :) My family of 3 lives on a budget of $50k, and yes, our savings rate is >>50%.

Of course, you specified living "well." I believe that we live well -- we're all certainly very happy, don't have any unmet needs, and are able to indulge in little luxuries like eating out once a month and visiting family in Europe once or twice a year. However, if living "well" to you requires having two late-model cars, a big house and eating out a few times a week, then yes, you will have trouble doing that while maintaining a high savings rate in the Bay Area.

I'm the same age as you, 34 (single and have no kids though), and like tostitos1979, I don't yet see a way out of the rat race. I live in a medium CoL city (Chicago) and still trying to make ends meet.

To answer the first question, I see myself with a decent paying job that has 401(k) and benefits in 5 years. Sounds average, like a typical college student's goal, but I still feel like a college student in some ways. I graduated at age 25 and 9 years later I am not able to make a living for myself.

I have been burnt out from companies paying so far below the local market rate, going through several periods of time with no work only to get another offer form a company that doesn't pay well, doesn't provide insurance, don't withhold taxes for their workers. And then getting laid off again. I'm spinning my wheels here. I cannot save money with that kind of thing going on indefinitely.

In 5 years I also do not want to be living with my mom. I want to have my own home, being able to set my own rules instead of running errands every day for family. And in 5 years I do not want to use her money to go to a coffee shop almost daily because that is the only way I can get internet access (and thus the only way I can send lots of resumes for a job).

Your transparency is really appreciated. Wishing you well!!

> A family of three traveling the world via sailboat

I guess on a sailboat you're on your own as far as health care goes (when making big crossings), but otherwise, living in the US, you're not going to insure a family of 3 for that amount.

We qualify for an exemption being outside of the US more than 330 days a year. Also, at the income level I mentioned, our premiums would be almost fully subsidized if we were to obtain US health insurance.

Plan B would be spending enough time in another first world country with real healthcare to obtain citizenship.

I'm intimately familiar with engineering around healthcare needs in the US due to my mother being disabled.

Then, I'm assuming you realize that your only expenses aren't premiums.

We intend to pay cash outside the US for any services, far below what the cost would be in the US, and possibly carry only travel insurance for emergency coverage.

Life is too short to live it in fear of "what if".

Or you could 'go live' in a country with universal health care and pay taxes there? e.g. pretty much any EU country.

It's not that easy to immigrate to those countries.

As someone who is a bit younger - how did you ~know~ how/where/what assets to put money into?

I'm currently in the car, but I will come back with online resources to answer this.

Awesome thank you!

How much is the boat though? What you just described is something I wouldn't mind doing myself.

Fiberglas boats mass-produced ~20,30+ years ago have been holding up well (depending on maintenance). So they are relatively cheap now. Something that was really mass-produced like the Catalina can be bought for like 10k for a 27 foot one.

$60k-80k used, ~35-40 feet, 20-30 years old.

You've done great, man. Very admirable.

Super appreciative of the kind words, but I'm not here to humblebrag. I'm showing the numbers because all of you can do this. Freedom is attainable, as long as your expectations as to what makes you happy is reasonable (time with family and friends, not a Lambo and every other weekend on Miami Beach).

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