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Comment by StavrosK | Hacker News Reader

I would very much like to invest in index funds, but Vanguard need a social security number, which I don't have. Does anyone know of an alternative that doesn't require an SSN, or something comparable to Vanguard in the EU?

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Vanguard exists in the UK: https://www.vanguard.co.uk/uk/portal/home.jsp

Ah, fantastic, I was just looking for that, thank you. It's odd how little a search turns up, "Vanguard Europe" wasn't very informative.

More than just the UK. See: https://global.vanguard.com/portal/site/home for a list of countries.

You would have to go through a EU bank who would act as a middleman. There are many of them that have zero fees so it would be practically like if you were investing directly with Vanguard.

Ah, that's an interesting suggestion, thank you. Do you know any banks, or what I could search for to find them? I'm clueless about this, I'm afraid.

I don’t know where in the EU you are but, in the UK I buy Vanguard funds (mix of LS100[0] & LS80[1]) through an S&S ISA[2] and a SIPP[3].

Pretty straight forward.

The ongoing for the funds are 0.22%, the ISA platform 0.25% and the SIPP 0.3%

[0]http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx...

[1]http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx...

[2]https://www.cavendishonline.co.uk/investments/buy/

[3]https://www.bestinvest.co.uk/pensions/sipps

Thank you! Unfortunately, the UK is borderline not in the EU any more, and all these online brokerages require a NI number... I tried to use Interactive Brokers, which I heard was great for buying ETFs and index funds, but the interface was ridiculously complicated, and did not inspire trust.

Do you know about ETF? Most of the Vanguard mutual funds have an ETF version.

I'm afraid I'm not very up to speed, all I know is that I want index funds, basically. I have heard of ETFs, but not in any great detail.

Basically any brokerage account can buy the ETF like it's a stock (which is what it is).

So just log into your account, find the ticker, and buy it.

Oh, that's great, thank you. I will open a brokerage account here and buy the ETF then, thanks again.

Can you request an ITIN?

I don't know what that is, I'm afraid. Is it something Vanguard would provide? If it's a US government thing, I don't live in the US, I would just like to invest in index funds (so anything that resembles Vanguard is fine with me).

SSNs are issued by the Social Security Administration for the purposes of keeping track of social security (read: government-backed retirement pension). The Internal Revenue Service keeps track of taxes and uses SSNs to keep track of all taxes (including payments into social security).

Some individuals (such as yourself) are not eligible to receive a SSN. For those individuals who need an identification number for US tax purposes, the IRS issues ITINs. See here for more information: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identifi...

Oh, thank you, that's good to know. I would rather not get involved in this if I can help it, I'll have to figure out something else, thanks again.

AFAIK there are non-trivial tax liabilities and reporting requirements in the US for non US persons investing in the US. Just to be on the safe side, I wouldn't directly invest in another country without consulting a tax professional first.

If you want to invest in a US index, you can probably find a ETF traded in your country of residence that tracks a US index. It'd cost a bit more than Vanguard's, but would cost you much less in hassle, effort, and regulatory requirements (which would be handled by whoever manages the fund).

You should ask your broker or bank about that before rushing to try and buy Vanguard's ETF directly from the US.

That's good to know, thank you. I managed to find a good brokerage firm (TD Direct Investing) in the EU, but I didn't know that buying US ETFs would have tax liabilities in the US. I will ask TD, thank you.

Sorry, I missed the part where you mentioned living in the EU. One of the siblings comments has a good explanation for ITINs. My wife used hers to open a Vanguard account despite having no SSN at the time. She did have a visa and a US address though, so I'm not sure how it would work for you (and if it would be worth the trouble; probably not).

I'm a French citizen, and wish I could help you regarding investing in the EU, but unfortunately I only got interested in it after moving to the US. Back in France it seemed like most people invested in real estate rather than in the markets.

Thank you anyway, I have a friend who's knowledgeable and he helped me find the tickers for the EU versions of the Vanguard ETFs. As I understand it, I won't need any tax presence in the US to buy them (e.g. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/VWRL:LN), so I should be set. I'm trying to open brokerage accounts now, and it seems like everything should be simple after that.

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