Keep in mind also that "growing" in this context doesn't refer to huge profits (as far as I know). As far as I can see, as a non-expert, Vanguard just offers the same products as everyone else, except at half the yearly management cost. I mean, when you're looking for some index fund, and Vanguard is one third the cost, is it any surprise they're taking away customers from the incumbents?
EDIT: For example, here's TLT (0.15% p.a.) vs Vanguard's long term bond etf (0.07% p.a.): https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=3144&... https://www.ishares.com/us/products/239454/ishares-20-year-t...
Imagine you have a class full of studious and competent students, they do well on exams and generally display the performance characteristics and output you'd expect from a class full of studious and competent students.
Then the rules change. From here on in, plagiarism is no longer a code violation. The obvious happens, everyone copies from the smartest kid in the class, measured by the heretofore pretty reliable indicators of proficiency built up in the previous system.
But the next year comes along, and everyone's just that little bit less certain who the smartest kid in the actual class is, so instead they start measuring by how rich his father is, or how confident he sounds when he makes his declarations.
Iterate the system a few generations, and although the first iteration will indeed result in better results across the board for all students, as people become more and more unhinged from the underlying realities of scholastic performance for students as they come and go through the system, would it not stand to reason that eventually you're just going to have a bunch of idiots copying people who yell the loudest, and seem the most like they're successful?
Everyone has the choice to copy who they think is smart or write their own answer.
Each person compares the expected value of writing their own answer with copying whoever they think is smart.
Some win, some lose. As it gets harder to work out who is smart yet everyone is copying, beating that average becomes easier. That proportion of the class who are capable of beating that average have an incentive to try it.
Stock picking has been massively overvalued for a long time. The costs people have paid for that value have been far too high. The index wins because it is /cheap/, the costs of investing in the index are low. As the market is now adjusting to that mispricing, among those stock pickers who can actually do it, there will be some good opportunities. Stock picking, whether buy someone like Buffet, or by an algo shop or whatever isn't going to go away. Every time the market is mispriced there's an opportunity. Price will end up somewhere close to value in the long run. It's amazing that with index funds it took so very long to happen. Malkiel pointed it out pretty clearly in a popular book that hasn't been out of print since, what, 40+ years ago. It's great, everyone should read it for its market insights, especially if you want to pick stocks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Random_Walk_Down_Wall_Street
The core point I was trying to make though is that the market is efficient in net across a great variety of actors all making their own judgement with regards to how much a given thing is worth because it's assigning so many eyeballs and independent evaluations to the pricing question for a given item.
When you swap that out and replace it with a system in which n% of the trade volume is just copying the rest of the trade volume, that reason applies inversely proportional to the volume that such indexing takes place, until a market with just one guy calling all the shots and everyone else indexing him may as well just be centrally planned, and thus afflicted with all the heinous cancers thereof.
Your point about the deleterious effects of the above also simultaneously lowering the bar on the challenge of beating the average though is something I hadn't thought of, and is completely correct. I guess that is how indexing would collapse when you got to some state where the market was mostly just ignorantly following the tiny minority of organic judgement being exercised, and that tiny minority turns out to be inadequate. The market then recovers by stock picking once again being conducted by specialists, and as you say, this would be a situation wherein stock picking was massively undervalued, as opposed to the (maybe present?) situation where it was massively overvalued.
Thanks for the book reference, I'll definitely check it out.
In the case of financial institutions, this timescale is often within a human lifespan.
So you might be wrong today, might be wrong tomorrow, but if you bet on failure, you will eventually be right.
I'm not serious, of course. But pride does seem to come before the fall, and just out of an excess of caution I might move some money out of my vanguard funds next week.
The bigger deal would be if the general market collapsed for some reason but that would affect everyone, not just Vanguard.
There's certainly no point in arguing with me, since I'm both reasonably poorly informed and aware of it; I have made no bones about the fact that my post was unserious. Yet you leap to the defense of what should, after all, be a very unexciting thing. And you aren't alone in doing so.
That, like this breathless article, is mildly troubling to me. These institutions should engender no loyalty, embody no attributes; only then does the market actually work. Evidence of those tendencies suggests the distorting effect of human psychology. And in tone it is too much like what we saw before the collapse for my liking.
But I was just pointing out they offer a rather dull, value for money service and are not going to collapse Enron style. They could decline Sears style however.
I actually think finance is interesting to read about and it can be exciting to try to make sense of the chaos.
If all of this really was that boring, you probably wouldn't have even clicked to read the comments!