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Comment by ajeet_dhaliwal | Hacker News Reader

This is awful on so many levels, but the worst part is the pettiness of the reasons for the fines.

That's what struck me too. As a white person, it has never once occurred to me that I might get fined for walking around after 10pm. Because I never would be.

The fine was for walking through a park that closes after 10pm. They use this to prevent people from sleeping in the park at night or doing other things like prostitution and drug use in the cover of darkness. There was a city park across from my dorm in college. The park had clearly visible no trespassing after 10pm signs. We would still walk through since it was the quickest route but cops were quick to pull up and give anyone a warning. I only ever heard of people getting tickets when they were doing stuff like underaged drinking and smoking weed in the park at night.

When I was a long haired white poor kid in a relatively rich suburb they used to always hassle us for laws like this. I think my personal favorite was when they brought ten police cars to crack down on five us standing in the park on a Saturday afternoon and make us disperse. I remember asking them "If we cannot stand in the park where are we allowed to go?" Park Curfew tickets like this ended up costing many of my friends their crappy apartments because they couldn't pay the fine and the fees for the community service.

Just wondering... are you black?

This is a serious question. I was not trying to be snarky, just trying to determine just how different things are if you are, say, a young black guy breaking a minor rule like that. I know the consequences are definitely different in Chicago if you are black, but I was wondering if things are better in other places in the US.

(Given the contents of the article, I realize NYC is similar to Chicago, I guess I was assuming you live in another area of the country?)

> The fine was for walking through a park that closes after 10pm.

That seems excessively broad. Aren't prostitution and drug use already illegal?

I have a photo of a sign in New Orleans forbidding this, and forbidding sleeping.

I was amazed at the number of signs showing what was forbidden in public spaces in the USA when I visited. It didn't square with my expectations of "the Land of the Free".

On the one hand, if the laws do indeed vary, then the signs make some sense. But there were signs forbidding things like "lewd conduct and public masturbation", or "public defecation", which I assume are generally forbidden.

It felt like someone thought I needed instructions on how to use a park.

Prostitution can be difficult to prosecute. "No, no, officer, the money was to play checkers. I only touched his wiener by accident." Catching someone soliciting generally requires a sting operation, which comes close to the line of entrapment. In that sense, loitering laws are more clear cut. You're in the park or you're not, and they don't usually station undercover cops nearby trying to entice pedestrians into the park to bust them.

>It felt like someone thought I needed instructions on how to use a park.

some people do

> We would still walk through since it was the quickest route but cops were quick to pull up and give anyone a warning.

Exactly. If you are white, then this seems to support the parent comment's statement.

Very likely everyone was and also looked middle or upper class.

If they weren't such, they probably wouldn't have gotten off with warnings and both them and their parents would have had quite a tiff that would have actually gotten something productive done as a result.

Then maybe they should make the other things illegal instead of inconveniencing citizens who just want to take a shorter route home.

I will second the person who said it happens. I've gotten a ticket for cutting through a NYC park after closing.

That's not true, I've been fined for same thing.

Petty? I dunno, maybe people don't want:

>unleashed dogs >public inebriation >public brawling >shoplifting

in their communities? This is the standard we hold ourselves to in the United States of America. Also see Singapore where you can be caned for spitting gum on the sidewalk.

I've never been tempted to do any of these things, and crazy thing, I've never gotten a ticket for any of them.

Ah yes, how dare people walk around after 10pm.

Walk around at 10pm. Just don't walk in the closed park.

Is it inconvenient to walk around the park? Sure it is. Should people plan for that, knowing about it? Probably. Do people do so? Usually not. Same thing with jaywalking. It isn't the same as "how dare people walk across a street".

They're free to walk across the street - just do so at the cross walk. Likewise, they're free to walk around after 10pm - just not in the park.

If it's closed, maybe close a gate?

Wasn't in the budget to build the park and likely wouldn't get approval for funding if it were. The alternative of an unfunded park is no park.

The tickets from people ignoring signs is also additional revenue to the town/state so there is some financial motivation to not spend money on a gate (and staff responsible for locking/opening the gate).

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