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Comment by rebootthesystem | Hacker News Reader

Random thought: Millions of people used to fly all over the world just fine before apps and smart phones.

To this day, I print my boarding passes at home and just go. I have never used an app of any kind to assist in air travel nationally or internationally. Never missed a flight or had any issues transacting changes or any of the commonly encountered issues while travelling.

And I do have an iPhone in my pocket at all times.

Same with taking a bus, train, subway, checking into a hotel, etc.

I'm curious. What has changed that someone might need a couple dozen different apps?

How many of these are solutions chasing problems? Or "just 'cause we can"?

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I do print my itinerary on paper, too (The failure modes of paper being few and well known) - my colleagues tend to chuckle and call me a dinosaur - until they get that panicked look as we near the last leg of our journey - looking for a power outlet...

However, things happen. The good airport apps can tell you stuff like "You just got out at Arrivals C/2. Next flight departs from B42, to your right, four minutes. Estimated delay 25 minutes, but boarding still closes in 11 minutes.

Granted, you can get the same info from signage and info screens, but when you've been on your way for a day, tired out of your mind, your incoming flight was delayed and you may not catch the last leg home, having to spend (yet another) night in a hotel with as much character as a helping of yesterday's mashed potatoes, getting the information you need on a small screen in front of you rather than having to go looking is gold. Pure, brilliant gold.

And I really should only need one, which is where this API comes in - if other airports could fall in line and agree on a common API, maybe we could get an app or two which aggregates data from the airports on your journey and presents it in a tidy way.

I'm a developer myself so I love software. I am simply puzzled by the statement someone made about needing a dozen apps to fly.

Here's my reality when I fly with my small children. I make it a game. I give them the printouts and have them navigate the family around the airport, etc. Airports are designed very well. They are designed for someone who doesn't speak the local language to find their way around.

And so, the way I look at it is: If a couple of kids, 9 and 10 years old, don't have a problem then I think for the most part these are solutions looking for problems. A piece of paper does just fine for probably 99% of travel scenarios.

Had the comment poster said something like "There's this one app that helps me get around and this is how it works" I think I would have reacted positively to that statement. The exact quote was:

"If this (eventually) leads to the possibility of one -1- properly designed and implemented airport app rather than me having a couple dozen different apps installed, all buggy and crash prone and with hardly any common UI features at all - then I'm all for it..."

Which triggered the question: Why does someone have to go through all of this pain and aggravation when millions of people have been travelling around the world for decades with nothing more than a few pieces of paper?

Most of what I read about this is unnecessary. Airports were designed way before smartphones every existed. Ergo, they work very well without them. In fact, they work very well with nothing more than a few pieces of paper in your hand.

Oh, I don't NEED them - that probably was a poor choice of words. But, at times, they make life easier, most notably when a flight into a transit airport you are not familiar with is delayed.

My comment was more in exasperation that when airport apps first are a thing - why, oh why does every airport need its own proprietary one?

And why are they more often than not made with hardly a thought being spared as to UX - and all seemingly designed by some new media company who just hankered a bloke in from the street which had the good marketing sense and poor judgment to put 'app development' on his resume after successfully completing the 'Hello, World!' tutorial in Android Studio...

> why, oh why does every airport need its own proprietary one?

I can understand that. It sure sounds like transportation in general might benefit from some sort of a unified API world-over. This would make every airline/airport share the same kinds of information in the same ways.

I agree with your sentiment that one app should be all you need.

Extending this to other forms of transportation would be great. Just not sure how something like that would be accomplished.

That said, they (airports, etc.) could not rely on apps to communicate with passengers because you can't assume everyone will have access to them.

It's just like anything else that we used to live without ... mobile phones, call waiting, microwaves, you name it. Doesn't mean that having new things today isn't an improvement or more convenient in some ways.

I've used printed boarding passes sometimes and other times used the app. Using the app isn't necessarily more convenient when it comes to the boarding pass, but the Delta app can quickly tell me if my flight is delayed, gives me gate updates, and alerts me when my baggage has been loaded onto the plane. Could I get along without it? Sure. But is having that information on my phone useful? Of course.

In the Netherlands many people who take a bus or train have an app (9292 or NS). It's one of the most useful apps on my phone.

+ It tells me when my stop is coming up and I have to press the button to get out of the bus.

+ It reminds me to checkout.

+ It tells me where to find the bus when I arrive at a train station I don't know.

+ It helps me plan my travel so I can leave on time.

+ It helps me to know when the latest train goes home.

+ It helps me to find the shortest route.

+ It tells me if there are still public bikes available at the station of my destination.

Of course, flying is quite different. Nevertheless I regretfully "did have issues" with flying.

+ I have to buy and print ESTA forms every two years.

+ I have to print boarding passes.

+ I have to print how to go to my hotel after arriving at an airport.

+ I have to look at dumb displays to find my gate.

+ I have to have this paper document called a passport that can be lost and gets you on Interpol if you're unlucky, but that's another story.

+ I almost never get a vegetarian meal because these booking agents are terrible.

+ Try to do the paperwork if you travel with something fancy, e.g. robots. "That doesn't look like a laptop, Sir!"

+ Even making a picture of a carry-on to check if it's the right size might be helpful, because that's the current attack on the passenger.

+ If you travel so often, can you take a bottle of coke with you? No, you're a terrorist.

There are many issues with air travel.

Not convinced. If your phone is dead or stole you can still move around just fine all over Europe. I have spent a pretty decent amount of time in the Netherlands in particular over the last fifteen years.

I understand having information conveniently available at your fingertips. That's great. My confusion had more to do with someone saying they need over a dozen apps to be able to travel. Sorry, travelling --by any medium-- predates apps and, for the most part, you don't need much more than a few pieces of paper.

I would not dare get on a flight while fully depending on data inside a phone. If anything happens to that phone you are screwed.

Welcome to 2017. I know where you are coming from, and I feel the same way, but we are part of a shrinking group. I pride myself on being able to find my way around unfamiliar places by simply studying a map beforehand (digital or paper) and having a basic grasp of the public transport options available there. When I drive a car, I can get where I want to be by simply using the signs and essentially just knowing the rough outlines of the topography.

I'm Dutch by the way, and I only ever use the 9292 service to check my itinerary and look for alternative routes if a delay or service cancellation occurs (although usually these are announced and/or provided for).

It's great that I am able to open up a web browser or some app before or during a trip to figure out if my itinerary needs changing or if a connection can be made, but I can't imagine having to depend on a dozen apps to figure out something as basic as where my gate is or when I should get out of the bus — buses announce there stops via scrolling text and usually voice, and why would you even get on a bus without knowing how many stops you'll be riding or even which direction it should roughly be heading?

There is a whole generation out there (severely generalizing, but it does feel this way sometimes) who completely lack the skills for even basic navigation. Their awareness shifted from actual to digital surroundings, their dependency on technology gradually increasing.

If people want to live like that; fine. But I find this increasing dependency on information fed to you rather than actively sought out worrying.

I made it a point to teach my kids how to familiarize themselves with their own city or a city they travel with using a map before allowing them to use Google/GPS for anything.

I know so many people who have absolutely no idea where they are and how to get places simply because they use a navigation app on their phone. Even simple concepts such as "this is approximately x distance south of our current location" escapes people who lose all positional awareness due to reliance on navigation apps.

Poor choice of words on my part. I don't NEED a dozen apps to travel; I am just somewhat annoyed that any two-gate airport in the world needs its own, poorly designed app. I want integration - after all, these apps aren't exactly rocket science.

Oh, and I don't rely on the apps. They are a convenience. I still have my itinerary on paper and ask for printed boarding passes just in case.

Integration. Yup. Agreed.

I'm not convinced about phone calls, because if your phone is stolen you can always go to a pay phone!

Sarcasm aside. The real answer is: Convenience. There are apps that make my life a lot more convenient. Dutch citizens live on public transport; I have never touched a car in my life. A bus stops at my station every 50 seconds. It is great to be able to quickly plan, get information about delays, allow yourself to take a nap and get woken up by a buzzer etc... It's just convenience. Yes you'll get along fine if you do your daily commute with same train, same bus, same boat. But as soon as you need to do something more exotic, it's nice for an app to have your back

9292 requires access to your contacts before installation. That's a non-starter for me.

If you have Android, look up Transportr. It's open source and has 9292 support.

I don't have a printer at home. I don't know anyone under the age of 40 who has a printer at home.

That's actually funny. So, the only people who own printers are over 40?

I think that's a fair comment. Most of my parents' friends have printers, my parents have a printer but I don't have a printer and none of my friends do.

I've considered owning a printer but my access to printers at work/school has always made them seem like more bother than they're worth. Particularly since other than boarding passes the only use I have for printing documents is work/school.

I can't remember a time without a printer at home. As an entrepreneur they are an absolute necessity. Work doesn't end when I leave the office.

Once you have kids printers are almost required. Mine are constantly printing homework assignments, coloring pages, etc.

Last minute gate changes or departure time changes can be challenging. Many airports have terminals that are miles apart. That doesn't necessarily mean you need a fancy app, but things like SMS notices for that sort of thing are very handy.

Google does a fairly good job at aggregating the info so you can search for flight status, but you have to actively poll for it.

For that reason, many people have lots of individual airline apps, or lots of individual sign ups for notices.

Similar for keeping your air, car, and hotel reservation details somewhat "together".

Lufthansa sends SMSes, which are faster than the notification from their own app.

As speed, the sms came ca 1sec after the change has been displayed at the original gate.

It's just like taking a bus, so how will an app help?

Well, when the world isn't perfect, an app that readily answers questions such as "how long is the plane going to be delayed for?" or "when will they send us the baby carriage? We are tired of holding him." or "does that guy have a license for that submachine gun he's holding?" is appreciated.

And you can get those answers without getting up from your coffee table or calling the authorities.

I actually understand what you're saying, and for the most part agree. I travel a lot (have spent only 30-60 days on my home soil per year for the past several years) and always print the stages of my trip out in a folder (flights, hotel bookings, etc.). We may do it for different reasons though - I hate trying to find a specific email attachment or download on my phone at a counter with people waiting behind me in line - gives me anxiety.

That being said, as a developer I don't see any reason to be anything other than excited about this. I think you've been pretty lucky to have never run into an issue while traveling. I've had my fair share of run-ins with last minute gate changes, too-tight layovers, incorrect signage at overcrowded airports, etc. If I could build my own little Twilio integration that alerted me the second a gate change occurred, that'd be awesome (and super fun to build).

Then again, we're living in the golden age of integrations right now and I get overly excited about all of this shit : )

I do exactly the same thing. I open a Word document and enter all of the details of my trip, usually copy and pasting from many email confirmations.

Dates, times, addresses, phone numbers, frequent flyer info, confirmation numbers, hotel, rental car, and other contact info.

I also do all the math to understand at what time I should leave home or the hotel to be at the airport on time.

If I have to rent a car I'll map the route from airport to hotel and print a Google map with directions.

I do the same for any meeting, visit or location during my stay wherever I am going.

I'll usually send that document to my wife if travelling alone or, if it is a family trip I'll send it to a family member so they have all our trip info handy (you never know).

I'll print one copy for each person travelling. That goes in your bag, wallet, pocket, whatever.

And that's it. As I said in a prior comment, I have yet to be at the airport and thought "I should find an app for my iPhone". Our travelling is usually very relaxed because all the information we need is in one place.

And it does not require power. Maybe that's the key. As a long time sailor I learn the hard way that anything electronic can and will fail exactly when you need it. It can also be stolen or damaged. I don't want to find myself in a situation where all of my information lives behind a small screen that I just lost or can't power-up. Paper still works wonders...you can even write notes on it.

Yeah, I hear you. I'd rather get to the airport 4 hours early and just walk around/read a book by the gate then be in a rush. My brother, on the other hand, is the guy who is constantly running for gates - I don't know how he does it.

Back before all of the security nonsense we have to tolerate these days it was easy to get to the airport 30 minutes before your flight and all was well. These days I fly with exactly the sentiment you described. I'd rather have enough time that none of it is stressful and you just go through the process in a relaxed manner. That just requires a little advance planning.

Not quite answering the question posed, but I do want to posit that air passenger traffic has continued to grow steadily nearly every year since it began: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IS.AIR.PSGR

There are a lot more people flying and/or flying more and that could increase the complexity of travel. Also, increased security can lead to more variable wait time and thus another variable to consider more now when deciding on what time to leave for a flight. Perhaps the increase in flight apps allows more efficient travel planning and thus saves people a lot of time? Just a thought.

Well, I travel all over the place inside and outside the US and I have yet to run into an issue that caused me to pull out my iPhone and download an app.

Not saying it isn't real. It just puzzles me that people might need a dozen apps when I just print a couple of pieces of paper (or refer to my email itinerary notices) and all is well.

Just to clarify, I am not being critical of anyone at all. I'm just puzzled, that's all.

You being puzzled confuses me, you might as well ask

... doing your taxes is as simple as filling out a form - why would you ever need an online system if I can just grab the form from the newsagent and fill it out? I've personally never had any problems

... we used to get just fine between locations using boats, why did anyone bother to invent planes? I personally have plenty of time to sit on a boat

That's a grotesque exaggeration.

The difference between travelling with and without apps is nowhere near the differences in the scenarios you are painting.

Airline travel was designed pre-app era. Which means that, by definition, nobody needs smartphones with apps to travel. Airports are probably the most efficient buildings in the world.

I don't have a printer at home, so having my boarding pass on a phone makes things a lot easier.

What do you need the boarding pass for? I fly from Norway to Poland with just the credit card that I used to make the booking. Same for the train to Oslo airport.

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