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Comment by cjrp | Hacker News Reader

They kind of did that with the Green Deal (helping people finance home improvements which boosted their energy efficiency) - https://www.gov.uk/green-deal-energy-saving-measures/overvie...

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I'd love to see the results... I've never been so baffled in my life, looking for a "normal" flat in London and looking at horrible prospects that cost a fortune with windows from a century ago. And when I asked about that, they were all saying "oh, but the house is listed! Can't change the windows unless X, Y, Z". Whatever.

We can put people in a rocket and take them to the moon but we can't replace windows and make them look identical to the previous ones but with all of the modern efficiency. Because oh well, the building won't be looking exactly like two centuries ago or something.

Completely crazy, let me tell you... :(

There's a history of people hiring the wrong builders and buildings being destroyed, I should imagine it's partially to hedge against that.

If you take the example of something like a Crittall steel-framed single-glazed window, a classic of the 1930s, there's just no way to fit double-glazing into the frames without destroying the appearance. The problem of thermal bridging (the metal conducts heat straight through) is also difficult to solve without thickening the frames. Maybe future technology will solve these problems. It seems more likely that the appearance of those buildings will take a hit due to the urgency of saving energy.

I'd be surprised if it was genuinely because the building's listed, it's usually just that the landlord doesn't want to make the investment (and the market doesn't demand it). Sadly, until the law requires rentals attain a certain level of efficiency, the same way you need something like a gas safety certificate, I can't see it changing.

And apparently the Green Deal was a failure - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/14/green-de....

Someone's taking the piss. There's almost no chance a "normal" flat in London is listed. Conservation area, maybe, but that's a different kettle of fish. Most likely your prospective landlord's a cheapskate.

I don't know about London, but my very normal flat (currently renting below LHA rate) in Cheltenham is grade II listed.

There are about 2000 - 3000 grade 1 and grade 2* listed buildings in London. 92% of all listed buildings are grade 2; the other 8% are grade 1 or 2. So there's likely to be a fair amount of properties that are listed.

I agree most buildings won't be listed and most landlords are cheapskates. But there are quite a lot of listed buildings in London:

http://londonist.com/2011/06/all-listed-buildings-in-london-...

No You cant I looked at buying a grade2* listed property (mentioned in pevsner no less) 1800's alms house.

You even had to use authentic rubbish paint on the doors

So that's what I'm saying. Instead of useless laws like that one, the Government should put a lot of weight and money and refurbish all of those windows, making them modern while using all those "original materials" or whatever they want.

Instead, I'm sure half the energy footprint goes to waste through those windows...

I'm not sure many people would agree with you that laws to prevent the destruction of historic buildings are "useless".

LOL please go look at a map of London, Z1-Z2. Protection? It's almost like every other building is "protected"!

Plus, read my comments. I'm saying the government should take care and sponsor the fixes to ensure the quality while greatly reducing the energy bill (that's my thesis).

London is 2000 years old. There are lots of historic buildings. There are energy saving grants available. Building regulations on insulation (including glazing) are very strict, but they're not retroactive until further work is done on the building. That's when you do see the double glazed units in sash windows. These are, incidentally, very expensive items, but then so is most listed building work. If you don't want it, don't buy a listed building.

Some streets, particularly in London, are very picky about modifications to houses. Even if it's not a listed property, you might need to get planning permission to put double glazing in - if it'll make your house look out of place with the neighbourhood the council can disallow it.

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