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Comment by hueving | Hacker News Reader

The big companies that already have a presence in multiple European cities won't have a big impact on staff. Take Google for example, people staying in London can keep working at that office, people that want to leave (or are forced to leave) can work in many of the other European locations (e.g. Berlin, Paris, Zurich, Vienna).

Smaller tech companies will probably be hit the hardest if they only have a London presence and they lose half of their employees. Depending on the employee composition, it may even make sense to move the company entirely to another country in Europe.

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> Depending on the employee composition, it may even make sense to move the company entirely to another country in Europe.

Similarly, if you're starting a company it probably makes sense to make Berlin or somewhere like that your home. Why risk potentially having your supply of engineers reduced dramatically post-Brexit? Funding could start to dry up in the UK for the same reason.

If I was incorporating in Europe today and didn't need SEIS/EIS I'd definitely at least look at Ireland, Germany, Malta and Estonia before automatically picking the UK. The criteria would be something like:

1). Is it easy to do most company filing work, taxes, VAT etc. on-line 2). Is it easy to open a business bank account there 3). Are investors familiar with that country 4). Is the required paid up share capital on incorporation small 5). Is the process quick (and corporate tax rate & legal compliance burden not too onerous)

Lower corporation tax too.

Why would they lose half their employees?

The only way Brexit involves people being forced to leave where they live is if the EU forces it to happen. The UK has already said many times it wants to take that possibility off the table as soon as possible.

> The UK has already said many times it wants to take that possibility off the table as soon as possible.

Except of course that the government repeatedly blocked attempts to give guarantees for people already living here.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/nhs-eu-nurse...

"Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum.

At the same time, freedom of information responses compiled by the Liberal Democrats from 80 of the 136 NHS acute trusts in England show that 2,700 EU nurses left the health service in 2016, compared to 1,600 EU nurses in 2014 – a 68% increase."

The UK has by all accounts tried to agree this ASAP before article 50. Europe (specifically Germany) has blocked this.

It seems cold but it would be irresponsible of the UK to not defend the rights of the millions of British citizens living in Europe. You'll notice that all EU countries have acted the same way.

Of course the EU is not going to start negotiations until they've been formally told that the UK wants to start negotiations for exit.

Assuming that the UK does end up with tighter immigration controls from the EU, getting staff in future is going to be harder, even if those already here aren't forced to leave.

Whether those controls will actually make any difference to highly-educated, well-paid, in-demand employees like software developers, I don't know.

Software developers of various kinds are actually on the UK government list of "professions with a shortage", meaning they get immigration priority.

(note: not _all_ developers, the list goes into particular backgrounds and specialities).

While developers might get "priority" immigration you still have more overhead compared to the "no fuss, just find a place to rent" deal those developers would get in other European countries.

For example, I would consider UK after brexit only if I get a substantially better deal than anywhere else in Europe. Otherwise it is just not worth going through the "immigration" process.

> The UK has already said many times it wants to take that possibility off the table as soon as possible.

Words are cheap. If they really wanted to do it, they would have done it already. I guess you're also expecting the NHS to get £350 million a week extra soon.

Has it occurred to the UK that young, progressive Europeans might actually not want to work there any more?

Why pick a country that at best will grudgingly tolerate you when you have so many other easier and increasingly more attractive options on your doorstep?

The British are willingly giving away their EU citizenship. Since each member state sets its own rules regarding non-EU immigration, the EU can not "force" anything to happen or not happen.

EU citizenship entails, among others, the rights of freedom of movement and of non-discrimination because of nationality. The UK has made it abundantly clear that it will not respect these rights, regardless of what the EU or its member states do. Ending freedom of movement and being able to "put British people first" were among the main arguments of the Brexit campaign.

So why wouldn't somebody consider leaving a place where they and their families will be open to discrimination, and where they will be allowed to remain only at the whim of the UKBA?

"Willingly". Yeah. We all changed our minds the moment the result came in because "the people have spoken".

Rupert bloody Murdoch has spoken more like.

There are also all sorts of legal barriers to kicking out people who have been in the UK for any length of time. It simply isn't the case that there are going to be millions of people forced to leave. Future immigration policy will need to be decided - I can't see a scenario in which talented Europeans who want to work in the UK are going to be turned away.

More interesting will be what happens to tech immigration from the rest of world. It is entirely possible that we end up with easier immigration to/from North America as a result.

Home Office already brakes the EU law on immigration, and I have absolutely no doubts that it will brake it further.

The example I have in mind is that Home Office requires that EU citizens who are in education or self employed should have Private Comprehensive Health Insurance to have right to permanent residence in the UK, despite the fact that such requirement is literally illegal in EU. The law states clearly that if you lived somewhere for 5 years, you have the right to permanent residence in that country - but Home Office will ask you for proof that you had comprehensive health insurance as a student for example, before issuing the Right To Permanent Residence permit. So people like me, who lived here for 7 years now, and were in university for 4, are fucked, because all the time spent here does not count towards the 5 year minimum requirement for permanent residence(and of course no one at uni told us we needed private health insurance - we were told to register with NHS and could use NHS like any EU citizen without any limits). I live here, I pay my taxes, I'm starting a family, want to buy a house soon - and then I ask myself, why the hell would I, if I can literally get kicked out in 2 years because someone decides not to give me a visa.

I would have never considered leaving UK otherwise, this is my home now, but it looks like I will have to at least consider my options now.

The immigration status of EU citizens resident in the UK is one of the only strong cards the UK has in the Brexit negotiations.

The UK may well threaten the EU with mass deportations, especially since the Brexiters running the UK don't give two shits about the status of UK expats in the EU.

While I don't consider deportations likely, when there are stronger forces at play (e.g. economic security of the UK) then all sorts of "barriers" have a tendency to disappear.

> There are also all sorts of legal barriers to kicking out people who have been in the UK for any length of time.

Such as? I don't believe that there are.

There are arguments the Vienna Convention has created acquired rights, and the ECHR's right to a private and family life. There's also the ability to apply for permanent residence if you've been in the UK for more than 5 years.

This is all being predicated on a more specific settlement not being reached with the EU. Given the UK says it wants one that shouldn't be a problem and may well turn into the UK making a unilateral grant of residence even if the EU decides to play hardball.

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