Comment by bad_user | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bad_user | Hacker News Reader

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I do think that automating cashiers at McDonald’s would be a big mistake.

We tend to underestimate the human interaction, however it's far harder to refuse a "would you like fries with that?" type of question coming from a human, rather than from a stupid interface on which we'll tap "Skip" as an automatic gesture and without regrets.

Talking with another human is also good when you're undecided about what to buy. Of course, it's not like McDonald's is a varied restaurant, when in fact they are famous for having those 15 dishes taste the same wherever you go, but there's still choice involved when picking one of those burgers. And think of how in restaurants, even with a detailed menu with pictures, etc. people still ask the waiter "what do you recommend?".

So yes, you can automate a cashier, but this means that the customer <-> McDonald’s interaction also gets automated in that process, this being a doubly edged sword and my guess is that it's not the customer that loses.

Oh, and the irony of this automation trend is that in the end there won't be enough people left to pay for McDonald’s shitty burgers, unless we progress towards some socialist society with minimal income and so on, in which case McDonald's raison d'être will cease to exist.

Even used a Wawa's automated ordering system?

They've covered pretty much everything you mention here with their automated ordering system. It's got a great UI to quickly customize your order, has very tempting upsells that also aren't terribly annoying, like a screen asking if you'd like sour cream for your quesadilla for $0.25 or a buttered roll with your cheddar broccoli soup. You can tap skip, but it certainly seems to make most people think first, unless they already know the system well and aren't interested.

It also provides recommendations in a couple ways, to cover people who don't already know what they want. Unobtrusive, but available to spur a purchase.

And the employees behind the counter will generally handle special requests outside the scope of the system when you ask. Although admittedly, while they are usually fairly approachable, there isn't a clear way to get one's attention.

They really seem to have nearly perfected the automated ordering system, and I'd never go to an ordinary deli with a Wawa available. It's just too convenient.

Of course, I may be biased in that I get intimidated by human interactions where I don't know the protocol or the options available to me. So, ordinary deli places tend to put me off. Still, Wawa is incredibly popular in this area, so I can't be the only one.

I like McDonalds and have been to quite a few. I have never, ever been asked if I want fries with that or otherwise upsold. Not sure where this meme comes from.

In every McDonalds I've been they ask:

1. Would you like a menu? (+fries +juice)

2. Make it big menu for just $X ?

3. Would you like a pie for desert?

I also have acquaintances that worked there. From where I'm from, if you don't ask such questions and smile at the same time, you tend to get fired.

I wonder if it's an NYC thing.

> I wonder if it's an NYC thing.

I think it's a US thing.

I remember that when I was younger I would get asked those questions every time, but not any more.

In the past few years (decade?) there has been a lot of push back against upselling fast food due to obesity concerns. If I had to guess I would say it probably started around when the movie "Super Size Me" was released (2004).

Now, if I order a meal, I might get asked "what size" without any suggestion. Or if I order a sandwich by name, I usually get asked to clarify if I want "the meal or just the sandwich." But I can't remember the last time they actually tried to upsell me.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if upselling still happened outside of the US.

Nope. Small Midwestern town, same deal.

I find it is much more common to be asked when you are in line at the drive-thru compared to walk-ins.

Oh, I don't think it will work in the US (at least not initially). Americans are accustomed to a certain level of service, in part because of cheap labor. I remember standing behind an American family at McDonald's and their order was just on another level, very specific. Nothing wrong with that, they are getting their money's worth, just different expectations.

We've had automated ordering at local chains in Sweden for 10 years, both in store and on your phone [0]. And more recently also at McDonald's. But you're expected to do a lot of things yourself here. This goes back at least to the '70s with the explicit idea to increase wages and production [1].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FyPqoT1yp4&t=60s [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehn%E2%80%93Meidner_model

I've never been in a Max Burger place that didn't have humans also taking orders.

The one at way out west might have been without human ordering [0]. But since you still need humans to make and compile the food it might not make sense to have automated serving. And since you have people serving they might as well take orders under normal conditions.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmCECwKpLgA

>"would you like fries with that?"

Example:

1)You select the #5 and it defaults to a meal, with the size of the meal predetermined by the most profitable selection. 2)You have to manually remove the fries and the drink, with a confirmation for each element. 3)When you hit order a pop-up appears advertising the newest derivative flavor topping for fries that you must dismiss or can click to add to your order. 4)Before you confirm your order you must un-check 2-4 options that are defaulted: add a small fries to the order, sign me up for the fries club, recommend fries to your friends.

That sounds like a great way to drive people away. An ordering system more annoying than a pushy salesperson? I'm going across the street instead, unless literally every option around does the same thing. And if Wawa in my area is any indication, there will be better options.

How much better is a Wawa than a Sheetz? When I lived in Virginia(9 years ago?) I would visit one near my work and I could order food on a screen and a few minutes later an invisible person would push it through the service window.

Never been to a Sheetz, I'm too far north, I suppose. There's no service window at Wawa, though. They prepare everything in plain sight behind a counter, which I'd consider a plus. And their mac n cheese sides are as addictive as cocaine.

For a third party comparison:

http://www.businessinsider.com/wawa-or-sheetz-which-is-bette...

I think human interaction is over-rated. I have to check the receipt every time I order food to make sure what I ordered was communicated by me, and correctly interpreted and inputted by the worker. Instead, if I just entered what I want into the system, then it is transcribed and I have a record and they have a record and there is less chance of mistake. If there is a mistake, there is no "he said she said" finger pointing.

Wawa's (mid-atlantic convenience store) sandwich / burrito / etc ordering process has been fully automated and customizable for a while. Order at a kiosk, go pickup whatever you want for a drink, go pay at the (human) cashier and your food is just about ready for you when you get back to the sandwich counter. It works pretty well.

> my guess is that it's not the customer that loses

It's quite possible that neither the customer nor the restaurant lose.

Anyway, a computer can also make recommendations. And it's just not a contest if the choice is between a web-page taking orders in my phone or waiting in line behind people that just stay on the cashier and can't decide what to order.

I get your point, but with a kiosk they could dynamically give special deals, like "add fries for $0.18" if it is profitable for them at that moment (maybe they are about to toss the batch of fries). Honestly I wouldn't consider McD's cashiers to be good salesmen.

On the other hand, with kiosks you can start A/B testing and so on.

I'm not really sure that people eat at McDonald's for the price. If you are price sensitive, cooking pasta at home costs less than McDonald's and isn't all that time consuming.

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