How is it a huge decline in quality of life?
This "high quality" protein myth is garbage.
Sorry, it is easier to eat meat. The protein IS higher quality, easier to digest and more balanced. Eating nutritional yeast and balancing your legumes, tofu and other protein sources to get a proper assortment of B vitamins and amino acids IS harder.
Not saying it's not healthier, not saying is not more ethical, not saying anything except it IS easier. Stop lying.
Do you think all vegans are the same? There is no need to make a huge generalization about a group that is so diverse.
> The protein IS higher quality, easier to digest and more balanced
I've never seen anyone claim that meat is easier to digest than plants. Do you have a source?
In terms of quality, you first need to define quality and that depends on your goals. Whole plant protein comes packed with fiber, while animal protein comes packed with cholesterol, IGF-1 and saturated fat. If your goal is to prevent heart disease and cancer through dietary means, plant protein is higher quality.
> Eating nutritional yeast and balancing your legumes, tofu and other protein sources to get a proper assortment of B vitamins and amino acids IS harder.
This statement makes it clear that you don't know much about vegan diets. This is usually a concern I hear from pre-vegans or people who have been vegan for 2 weeks.
> not saying anything except it IS easier. Stop lying. If I was ever worried about getting all 9 essential amino acids in a single meal (believe me, most vegans don't think about it), I would eat beans and rice, or lentils and potatoes, or edamame, or tempeh, or quinoa, or hummus and crackers, or a peanut butter sandwich, or tofu. For me, this is a lot easier (and cheaper) than preparing meat.
If you've been eating meat for 20 years, it will be easier for you to keep eating meat, no one is disputing that.
Now, eating out is definitely harder as a vegan, but like the parent said, it's because the way society is currently setup, not because meat is easier to produce.
True, I should have qualified this. It's only a subset of vegans who frustrate me this way.
> I've never seen anyone claim that meat is easier to digest than plants. Do you have a source?
Really? Google "is meat easier to digest than vegetable protein". It literally has millions of results.
> In terms of quality, you first need to define quality and that depends on your goals. Whole plant protein comes packed with fiber, while animal protein comes packed with cholesterol, IGF-1 and saturated fat. If your goal is to prevent heart disease and cancer through dietary means, plant protein is higher quality.
Yeah, I get this argument. It's why I'm eating vegetarian or vegan at least a few times a week these days.
> This statement makes it clear that you don't know much about vegan diets. This is usually a concern I hear from pre-vegans or people who have been vegan for 2 weeks.
I'm going by discussions such the ones in my vegan cookbooks, similar to this one:
http://veganhealth.org/articles/protein
> If you've been eating meat for 20 years, it will be easier for you to keep eating meat, no one is disputing that.
That was the crux of my argument: it is NOT easy to be vegan, stop saying it is. It is arguably better. Healthier and more ethically sound. But my vegan days have much more time-consuming shopping, cooking and prep days.
My personal experience was that going vegan was much easier than not, as soon as I became aware of what was going on (at around age 18). Once I realized that animals have relationships and emotional lives, it became clear to me that they weren't "food" for me.. in the same sense humans aren't food for me.
Additionally, in terms agriculture, it seems like it requires more work and inputs to create meat, so that is harder as well.
I've been vegan for over a decade and it honestly feels like it's only made my life better.
I've been reducing meat in my diet and eat vegetarian a couple of days a week. I try to buy ethically raised meat for other days.
What I was reacting to is the idea that it is some how not an effort to be vegan, as if it isn't any more work than stopping off at MickyD's on the way home ...
Also, yes to reducing intake. The idea you have to go totally vegan to make an impact probably hurts the cause.
My ultimte frisbee coach used to say he would offer to buy people vegetarian meals as an offset, so he could still eat meat.
I dealt with my concern over dating non-vegan women when I realized I'd probably save more animals by the fact they would most likely eat less meat at least sometimes by being with me.
Finally, I think some of the best work being done for animals is the work in startups making vegan meats and such.
This is wrong? Are you claiming you can just eat cruciferous vegetables, for instance, and be fine?
You really don't know what you are talking about do you?
The amount of protein in seeds, tofu, seitan, nuts, legumes is plenty for almost anyone. And if you are power lifting even omnivore lifters take protein shakes after working out usually.
I eat meat and (non-starchy) vegetables. I don't eat like a bodybuilder, but neither is a plant-protein-based diet easy for me.
You're shifting the argument. The point isn't that we need to eat like them, it's that we want to, and meat is delicious.
> The amount of protein in seeds, tofu, seitan, nuts, legumes is plenty for almost anyone.
By that logic, there'd be no point in manufacturing sports cars or macbook pros anymore, because normal cars and Chromebooks have enough power for "almost anyone".
Matter of taste? I don't like it much, never did and I grew up in a family were we ate tons of meat and vegetarian was a dirty word. I like 'a bite' of very good beef, but I could never eat a whole steak; just bores the hell out of me and the taste annoys me after a few bites. Chicken I just don't see the point. Next to a programmer I am a cook (own a restaurant) and I find taste very important; always have. So I think 'meat is delicious' is an opinion of yourself (and often people who never tried much else; people who cook 'without meat' (for whatever reason) often cook very bland; then I can understand it; those meals give 'vegetarian' cooking a very bad name and meat 'automatically' would make those better tasting for a lot of people. I wouldn't eat a barely heated up mashed pumpkin without seasoning either); I prefer other things and sure, if there is a bit of meat in something then it can be nice under the right circumstances.
Raw meat, eggs, and such are very easy to cook and make delicious.
Tofu is already highly processed, and beans require a length cooking time. By any definition of the word, animal protein is less time consuming to make more delicious than plant protein.
Your reading comprehension needs work.
And compared to tofu, a cut of raw meat is far less processed.
Then refute it, instead of spouting baseless accusations. With meat, you cut the meat off the animal after skinning it.
With tofu, you dry the beans, soak them, add a chemical coagulant to the fluid, and then press it.
I don't know what sources you're reading, or what your definition of the word "processed" is, but neither are commonly accepted.
I think my situation is hardly rare.
"huge" is debatable, but certainly a valid standpoint. In any way: there are pros and cons and everyone should weigh them against each other: health, price, animal cruelty, taste etc.
My compromise e.g. is non strict (and hopefully non dogmatic) vegetarian with preferably organic diary products.
Overlooking whether vegans or religious sects are good, bad or whatever, what really happens is probably that people find other vegan people, become part of a community and enjoy that.
It's the same cargo cult process that makes everyone want an Iphone. I dread the day when a high percentage or, god forbid, majority of people start looking down on those dirty meat-eaters because "won't anyone think of the animals?".