Hacker News Reader

Comment by pluma | Hacker News Reader

> Dresden is one of those rare german towns with US "Rechtsabbieger" rules

If it's anything like the picture, the reason right turns are allowed is the green arrow (it roughly translates to "when red, right turns are allowed if you don't interfere with other traffic"). I strongly doubt random towns in Germany can bypass the StVO (the laws which govern public roads).

EDIT: To clarify, I was born in Cologne, which is on the opposite of Germany, and green right arrows exist here as well and they are part of the material you learn for taking a driving exam.

View on HN

Dresden is not allowed to bypass the StVO, so they had to put up this crazy light, yes.

But the Rechtsabbieger "Grünpfeil" is also in the StVO § 37 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 Satz 8 bis 10 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCnpfeil

History: The old DDR came up with this Grünpfeil (turn on red) law. During the Wiedervereinigung it was "agreed on", that this law can persist for max. one more year, 1991. But based on huge civil protests on silly law reforms (same for abortion and women rights which where more advances in the east), Germany kept this exception, and even some old ex-BRD towns introduced it since.

I believe Dresden had most of the existing 2.500 Grünpfeil signs in Germany, but in the meantime the west has caught up, and there are now 5.000 such signs.

Grünpfeile were really new in West Germany after the reunification. My brother told an anecdote from when he once drove through Hamburg and saw a Grünpfeil there, which had a sign below it explaining how it worked (something like: "Grüner Pfeil = Stoppschild für Rechtsabbieger", "green arrow = stop sign for right-turning drivers"). He quipped that this was probably the only traffic sign ever to come with its own manual.

Unlike in France, where for some reason a lot of symbolic signs come with text instructions on a separate sign:

http://s3.freefoto.com/images/41/03/41_03_88_web.jpg

(English: "Give way")

The same is true in the United States to a certain extent, though the instructions are a bit more complicated usually. The Yield sign and the Stop sign will have the relevant text within them, but below those signs you will have instructions for the given intersection, especially with stop signs:

"4 Way" or "All Way" -- Indicates that every entrance to the intersection has a stop sign. I understand all way stops are either uncommon or unheard of in Europe.

"Cross Traffic Does Not Stop" - often used with "Two Way" stop

"Traffic from the left/right does not stop" -- often used when one direction is coming off a signaled light or crossing railroad tracks, or other cases when traffic from one direction needs to continue to flow to prevent a backup that could be dangerous.

Crosswalk signal instructions regulatory sign -- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_R10-3b.svg

Judging by what I've seen in photographs, the instructions on US signs often either state what should be obvious or are unnecessarily complicated (often because there are unnecessary exceptions other countries would simply omit).

Actually that's a really nice way for people to learn what traffic signs mean, way before they start studying for a driving license.

I don't own a driver's license either. I just pick this stuff up. Sometimes I ask my current driver what a certain sign on the road means.

Or you could teach it in school. In Germany we had bicycle excursions in school, including a mock "cycling license exam" where we drove on a test track with various road signs and traffic lights.

Is this one ever used? http://radyzezivota.cz/wp-content/uploads/Dopl%C5%88kov%C3%A...

This is the normal sign, yes. But in some towns (esp. Dresden, but now everywhere) we have simplier ones, a green arrow without light. You are allowed to turn right on red then, if traffic allows. Similar to the US.

https://ais.badische-zeitung.de/piece/00/bb/82/9b/12288667.j...

Yes. The difference is that the lighted version does not require stopping (because it's only lit when there is no cross-traffic anyway), whereas the static sign does require a stop before turning.

This. I was actually unaware of this distinction before studying for the driver's license and always assumed the sign was just a stylised version of the light to save energy.

Also worth of note: when traffic lights are active they always take precedence over static signs which in turn take precedence over road markings (which themselves take precedence over road layout). The green arrow sign is special in this regard because the rules for traffic lights explicitly take it into account -- otherwise the red light would always trump the sign because of precedence rules.

Not in this form, no. The green arrow light would be required to be next to the other green light in this case (in Germany at least). But those do exist, yes.

So IOW it's not so much that Dresden is one of those cities with American laws but that they make more use of that German (originally East German) law that is these days commonly made use of throughout all parts of Germany even though Dresden still features them more prominently?

Sorry for nitpicking but your first post read like Dresden had special traffic laws and green arrows were rare outside a handful of cities (plus AIUI the green arrow has slightly stronger implications in the US).

Yes, I was unclear.

fwiw, in the US you can turn right on red unless there is a sign saying you can't... I've never seen a green arrow sign. Sometimes there are green arrow lights that say you have a protected right turn.

Not in New York City, where you may not unless specifically marked so.

good to know... how likely are you to get pulled over for turning right on red illegally, but safely?

All the time. It's a surefire way of pulling over someone from out of town. My first ever memory of being pulled over was visiting NYC. My dad was driving and got pulled over. The cop said: "no right on red in New York City!" - a phrase that is now burned into my memory.

Occasionally it will be screamed at you by pedestrians in Manhattan when you edge out and block the crosswalk.

You are 7 likely...

But also importantly, it is allowed in New York state, just not the city. Very weird.

NYC should secede from NYS.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com