ReMarkable – A writable eInk tablet | Hacker News Reader

ReMarkable – A writable eInk tablet

getremarkable.com

114 pointsbreck71 comments

This is a bit of a repeat: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13113819.

To echo the old thread's sentiments, I'd be extremely happy to see this hit the market in late summer as a great full-page PDF viewer. Academics would never be happier. Just hoping it's not vaporware like so many others.

My wife is in academia and this would be absolutely perfect for her. Right now, she loads things up on her iPad but the reading experience just isn't that good.

Musicians as well.

Yup, would save a ton of printing from imslp.

I absolutely love my Sony Digital Paper http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-digitalpaper/resource.solu... it is a bit expensive, but it is a beautiful product and makes my life so much more comfortable.

I was looking into getting one and according to CDW the Sony Digital Paper was discontinued January 17.

My fear with the Remarkable is that they will try to require a monthly subscription to their cloud service in order for the device to function.

if you can find a Sony DPS, just buy it. If you are thinking about buying one, you should get one.

My supervisor has one of these and it does look amazing. Can't really justify the cost for myself right now though. Hoping reMarkable lives up to the hype.

it is amazing. it is lightweight ereader that allows you to read and annotate PDF documents and take notes. To be it is worth the price.

The one thing that bothers me is just 512MB RAM. RAM is super cheap these days, why not 2 or 4GB? I'm not sure they will be able to render a more complicated PDF without swapping.

I've tried to read academic papers on E Ink displays before and the slow refresh times have always been a dealbreaker.

On the other hand, I just read the advertisement for ReMarkable and made a note to buy one when it comes out... A genuinely good E Ink tablet is something I've wanted for a long time now.

Their blog contains new information:

https://blog.getremarkable.com/product-update-from-the-remar...

> Currently, we’re working on perfecting the fifth generation prototypes, both on the hardware and the software side

> reMarkable is assembled by Shenzhen Kaifa Technology who also manufactures products for Samsung and Huawei, among others. E Ink supplies our custom-made CANVAS paper display, and industry leading WACOM is our partner on the high-precision Marker.

> All three partners have dedicated teams that work hard to make reMarkable the most paper-like digital device yet

> To ensure streamlined cooperation we’ve partnered with manufacturing consultants Dragon Innovation which supports hardware companies worldwide with unparalleled manufacturing expertise and quality assurance.

It's a good alternative to the discontinued SONY DPT-S1 and Onyx BOOX. (Edit: and goodereader)

The main difference based on spec is the screen, pen sensitivity, and price.

ReMarkable:

- 10.3" 1872 x 1404 (4:3, 226 DPI)

- 2048 levels sensitivity, high friction pen

- $429 (limited time offer, preorder)

SONY DPT-S1:

(discontinued Jan 17, 2017)

- 13.3" 1600 x 1200 (4:3, 150 DPI)

- pen input

- was $799 (now > $1k on ebay)

Onyx BOOX Max:

- 13.3" 1600 x 1200 (4:3, 150 DPI)

- pen input

- $760

Onyx BOOX N96:

- 9.7" 1200x825 (16:11, 150 DPI)

- pen input

- $369

Goodereader:

- 13.3" 1600 x 1200 (4:3, 150 DPI)

- 1024 levels sensitivity pen

- $699 (preorder)

Too bad about the missing backlight. I preordered one regardless, but i miss it already

> In a couple of months Onyx is going to start production of Max Carta (same Max but with higher resolution Carta screen). Onyx Max 2 is in work and is expected later this year.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3487807&pos...

I see that they ship to Europe, but do they ship European orders from Europe? I'm tempted by this, but I really don't want to play the customs lottery, not only due to the money (which is also a factor) but also due to the paperwork, etc.

Their business address is in Norway, but of course that doesn't say anything about where they ship from.

I asked this question months ago (being based in Europe too) and the reply was that I will indeed have to pay my local VAT and import toll when receiving the product.

When I explicitly followed up with whether this means they will ship from China they followed up with saying that it is very likely, but not set in stone yet.

Thanks for the info! It's a pity. I'd rather pay an extra for shipping when I preorder, in exchange for not having to worry about customs, as some Kickstarters do (or as Amazon does). Customs in my country are cumbersome and used to be unreliable (I have heard reports that they aren't that bad lately, but I still avoid them as knee-jerk reaction).

They are a Norwegian company, so even if they ship from their European country and you live in any EU country, you still will have to pay customs.

Bought it anyway, even with customs (and in my country are surprisingly straightforward), it's cheaper than alternatives.

I'd get one in a heartbeat if the writing interface is as good as Microsoft Surface 4 Pro/Surfacebook, the only pen interface in the history of computing that I found wasn't an unusable laggy pile of shit. Seeing as it is based on Wacom technology, I'm going to assume they already failed this requirement.

Also, they need to get the device price down. Anything over $200, and they already priced themselves out of the market for cheap tablet that has limited use.

Whats wrong with Wacom ? I have a Surface Pro 2 which afaik uses Wacom tech (i know the newer ones use Ntrig) but i find the pen input to be very responsive and nice.

I think you misunderstand parent; he / she was referring to Wacom technology as industry leading / the best.

I understood the parent to conclude that choosing Wacom was a failure, as Wacom tech is not as good as whatever is in the Surface 4.

I've off and on owned Wacom tablets. None of them were an experience I decided to keep using no matter how neat having a pen interface on a PC is.

Laggy as hell to the point they're unusable to me.

Probably a driver or software issue. Can't imagine the Wacom hardware is inherently laggy.

The drivers are written by Wacom, and the software isn't written by me AND the pen interfaces in major pieces of software were written for Wacom in mind (and often with input or actual code by Wacom)....

And as a user, I literally don't care why it's broken, only that it's broken and I have no need for a broken experience.

Does this handwriting - http://i.imgur.com/46zsYWw.png - look like a device that's picking up fine, fast movements as well as paper? Or this - http://i.imgur.com/BEvjRWI.png - what are those highlighted shapes? It's possibly just the chap's handwriting, but in a product video for a new product all about how it's like handwriting on paper, wouldn't it be a plan to choose someone with tidy handwriting? But I don't think it is his handwriting; in both of the bits pictured there's lots of uuuuu shapes and round o shapes are mashed or almost missing; 'Let A be ev°n uhon Z is .dd. P l o t roills OK Kincticn'.

Put their video[1] in 0.25x slow motion and watch at 39 seconds, the 's' they write at the end of 'Restrictions', see it gets the start and end missed and the shape distorted. Then watch the filling in sketching movements at 40 seconds, the ink appearing lags by the entire length of the pen stroke...

Yet in a couple of places, it looks like it is keeping up with writing. Where they say it's the fastest, where they zoom in on his handwriting.

I want it to be paper. But ... I dunno...

[1] https://youtu.be/34I27KPZM6g?t=38

I presume they use some sort of path prediction to make up for the laggy display. Doesn't work well for sharp corners.

If you watch the handwriting at second 52, the lag is barely noticieable, even on slo-mo.

What is happening is that a light grey shadow appears very fast, and then the ink "fills in" fluidly until achieving its final dark grey. The effect is like some "magic ink" that dries in contact with air. It's not exactly like pen and paper, but they've achieved an effect that psychologically works well for me.

The Sony epad [1] seems to be right there in terms of writing speed, if we can trust either video.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrp9TxgFBdw

Quick disclaimer; The CTO of reMarkable is a friend of mine.

I was at their office and tested reMarkable a bit. The delay is surprisingly low. If i did quick circle shapes over the display the pen would be 5-8 cm in front of the line. When writing normally i didn't feel or notice any lag at all really. The display itself is also more rugged then a kindle paperwhite, so writing gives enough resistance to feel "paper-ish". The software does a correction after writing, so ragged shapes gets smoothed out and i saw some fills being added. I'm unsure how much of this is being tested and tweaked.

> the only pen interface in the history of computing that I found wasn't an unusable laggy pile of shit.

Really? In the history of computing? IMHO, nothing today comes close to the styluses (styli?) of the palm devices or even the casio pocket viewers. It's a pity that the industry moved ahead and these companies failed to keep up. The technology as well as the UI/Ux of the palm devices were way ahead of their time.

Unfortunately, I never had the chance of using a Palm device of yore. Palm still has a following, as does Newtons due to how historically they solved a problem so smoothly no one since has been able to copy it. I'm willing to accept that ye olde Palms could meet my requirements of usable.

I don't think the silicon valley today understands that everything must be UI/UX oriented. If your UI/UX is broken, I don't care what your product does, I don't care how much it can improve my life, I don't care what you're telling yourselves or your investors: your product is broken and unusable to most of your customers, to every customer who isn't willing to put up with the brokenness.

As a customer, I don't need you, you need me.

Most recent stylus laptops/tablets are pretty good (following surface's lead). The corner has turned.

Hmm I wish I could remember the brand but I was playing with a Windows 10 tablet in Best Buy that had a pen, it wasn't the surface and it was no where near as good.

Is there a place that shows which tablet(s) have the higher resolution, low latency styluses?

Any stylus with a battery should be good. Recent ThinkPad yoga, HP, Acer are ones I've tested recently, and have been happy with them

Why should $500 be too expensive? When I was in college I payed $200 per text book sometimes. If a person makes $45 000 a year, $5 000 of which is spending money, and they spend 700 hours a year reading and taking notes, then $500 is just %10 of their spending money and pays for something that they will use during %10 of their waking hours. A far better deal than say flying to disney world, or buying a $60 video game with 30 hours of game play.

> Microsoft Surface 4 Pro/Surfacebook, the only pen interface in the history of computing that I found wasn't an unusable laggy pile of shit.

You should try the Apple Pencil. Reviews, comparisons and anecdotes put it considerably ahead of the Surface in accuracy, latency, parallax, pressure sensitivity and tilt detection:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMA25CqKcn8

Surface Pro 4: Fails on the lowest pressure. No tilt detection at all? No wide color gamut. Bulkier device and potentially noisy/clogged fans?

I also remember seeing/reading that the Surface Studio screen "ripples" under strong pressure.

----

On the iPad, in some apps like Procreate, you can even control effects like the direction of motion blur by tilting the Apple Pencil around (rotating its back end in the air) while keeping the nib on a focal point.

You could also use the iPad + Pencil as a drawing tablet for native Mac or Windows apps:

https://www.duetdisplay.com

http://astropad.com

P.S. Wait till Apple's March event if you're planning to get a new tablet.

maybe that's not the market they want to be in. In fact I think an e-ink device is a specialty device that people who need to read a lot will have and they will pay extra for in addition to their normal tablet. I will definitely pay 500 for this.

I think you'd have to really, really prefer eInk to want this.

If you just want an affordable tablet with writing ability, the Samsung Galaxy Tab A With S Pen is $299 on Amazon, and it has twice the storage (16GB plus a microSD slot) and 4x the RAM (2GB vs 512MB). S Note has improved a lot with better cut/paste/resizing features, and can synchronize your notes & sketches to Evernote.

That's a beautifully designed product page though, and bonus points for including scenes from Malmö in their video.

They are not really meant for the same applications. It's not running Android. E-ink displays are grayscale, they refresh very slowly compared to LCD/LED, completly lack glare, work well in sunlight. It's a different category of device, and yes it's meant for people who really, definitely do want this instead of a garden variety Android tablet.

> E-ink displays are grayscale

Most, but not all. There are commercially available E-Ink color displays (using color filters) such as E-Ink Triton , http://www.eink.com/display_products_triton.html .

A year ago, E-Ink demonstrated pure color (pigment based) which gives you broad gamut color (more than color filter based displays) but I haven't seen them used in commercial products yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2V9iuTW3sA

The displays can update quickly, even do 10Hz-20Hz type animation. But that would defeat the purpose of using it for low-power by not updating it all.

I dont think you buy this tablet for it's feature count. They make it pretty clear it's made to replace paper.

I never worry about my papers ram, and I don't care for games and watching movies, and I certainly wouldn't want to strain my eyes outside trying to figure out what's on the screen.

I'm not saying this tablet is a compromise, instead I'm saying that for what it is.. It's an all round superior product.

I'd buy a galaxy to replace my mobile phone and laptop on the go... At that the galaxy is an all round superior device.

I tried to read ebooks on my tablet, the experience was so bad for my eyes, that I eventually bought a Kindle to read with an eInk screen instead.

The only thing tablets still do better than most eInk devices, for whatever reason, is rendering PDFs.

I have wanted something like this for years (ever since I got my first kindle), but I just can't get over the price - over $400 for what is basically an e-reader with a digitizer? I get that there's a premium to be paid for basically bootstrapping the production process, but I would have guessed that $300 would be closer to the top end for this (and I would still wait for the price to come down from there).

I think the price makes sense. It's a bigger display than you get on the $200 kindle. It also has a digitizer (add $100), software, and the "bootstrap" extra. Now if they ever raise the price to 700+...nuts.

There's a 42-inch version of this from Quirk Logic.[1] Does almost exactly the same thing, but it's bigger, for groups. No price given. Like the little tablet, it uses a special pen. It's so close to the tablet in functionality that there must be some commonality.

Eink displays are still expensive per pixel. Early on, the technology was touted as being cheap, but that hasn't happened. The contrast is much improved, though; it started as dark grey on light grey, as seen in early e-book readers, but some devices are now tolerable. Not the cheap ones, though.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyQc90MY3fo

I wish to have a large e-ink monitor for read & write, with a normal one for the rest.

My eyes get tired fast and is mainly because I'm addicted to read ;)

This looks really nice, but to be honest i find the experience with a Surface Pro and OneNote/Drawboard PDf so good when using the pen, i hardly need anything more and it doubles as a full desktop computer when i want to. In the end, for 200, maybe 250 EUR i would buy this, but not for double that.

I have never been much of an early technology adopter for this reason. The cost benefit ratio is almost always too high for me. Good job not everyone's the same. I could see myself getting one in a few years though if the price goes down so I wish them well.

$429 is pretty high, you can get a few separates for less than that. but if it had a lot of b&w productivity apps it could be a better buy than an ipad pro.

I think they're meant for different target markets and use-cases.

I really wish I had this in undergrad. Back pains alone.

Definitely as an ereader user I would be interested any low lag technology even if I don't really want a bigger device currently. But I am also curious about the glass free display because I do really worry about the fragility of the e-ink displays. The idea of a textured surface is also very appealing if the display quality remains good.

Does this come with a front light similar to Paperwhite on the Kindle? IMHO this is hugely important for good readability.

The video emphasises the creative aspects of the tablet but I wonder how they'll go without an online bookstore.

They explicitly don't support DRM which means they can't, say, read titles bought from Google Play Books - if they hope to migrate Amazon and Rakuten customers.

I wonder how robust the stylus is. The iDevice styli have a quite limited life span.

Is there a reason this doesn't take a microSD card?

The only 'data loading mechanism' it mentions is the company's cloud service, and I suppose cloud-syncing multiple cards and internal storage would be a hard UX to get right. (As a user, you'd presumably want the new empty card you put in to sync with a different set of documents from your cloud account.)

So how is this different than the Amazon paperwhite tablets?

It's in the title -- you can write on it.

costs too much and lags too much - pass.

I basically don't use my Kindle paoerwhite because of the tiny lag. It is regretful how impatient and intolerant I am. Many people seem fine with this amount of lag, not me. Probably the Remarkable has less lag but it's noticeable in the video. Wish e-ink products would specify the lag for various ops. As soon as a product like Remarkable gets below my annoyance/intolerance/impatience threshold I'm sold.

I like adding diagrams to my text, probably I ought to get a digitiser and pen. Until e-ink reaches the sweet spot any recommendations?

I agree, the lag is barely tolerable for turning pages, but as soon as i want to mark something or look up a word in the dictionary, the lag really annoys me.

I'm not sure on the Paperwhite, but on the Voyage there's an option to stop the kindle refreshing the screen on every page turn. It makes page turns faster, but you might see a tiny bit of ghosting from previous pages.

On the Paperwhite you can set it to refresh every fifteenth page turn, but I find the occasional flash of a refresh much more distracting than a flash every time, which I can get used to. In fact, these days I never even see the flash any more; it happens as I move my eye from bottom right to top left and so I'm hardly ever consciously aware of it.

> Remarkable has less lag but it's noticeable in the video

I found the editing of that video to be extremely frustrating as I wanted to see a straight up shot of someone writing something on a blank screen. The only shot of that I saw (I scrubbed through the video pretty quickly, so I might have missed a better one) was blurred so much that I couldn't see how bad the lag was.

I think that video was very clearly attempting to disguise how bad the lag is.

That's so common with e-ink devices.

The quote is about another crowd-funded e-ink device[1]

> Look at the two videos and it will be apparent that screen refreshes are horrible; they have highly edited the videos to hide this fact and other inconsistencies

[1] https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3285829&pos...

> That's so common with e-ink devices

Which is very unfortunate. The intentional deception is so obvious to me that it leaves me wondering what else they're hiding.

As a result I won't touch the product with a ten foot pole.

yep pass. the pen will lag, it will be too slow flipping between pages (paper is instant), the software will suck, it won't do anything magical (like recognize handwriting correctly or provide constraint-based drawing assistance), and of course there will be some crappy cloud feature you don't want.

The most remarkable thing is that I don't see anything -- even with javascript enabled. Must be the ad blocker or something. Why can't a landing page have any kind of fallback plain html page?

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