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Comment by SubiculumCode | Hacker News Reader

Why not Mattermost?

https://about.mattermost.com/

Own your data.

I think some of it is a branding fail on Mattermost's part (or a branding win on Slack's). Case in point - I was recently in talks with a non-tech company who are HUGE users of freemium Slack. They don't want to actually spend money on it, but they have a person whose (partial) job description is to monitor all 15+ Slack channels for 'anything that looks important, and archive the conversation wholesale into the company wiki'. If they paid for Slack, their annual cost would be $10k+. I proposed to build them a Mattermost server for a flat rate of $5k and they're responsible for the hosting costs (~$20/mo for a VM somewhere). For a small recurring fee I would handle regular updates, etc, to the server. CEO's response was "Nope, we like Slack", with no further explanation or elaboration. The rest of the teams had been demo'd on Mattermost, agreed it did All The Things(tm), agreed it was the superior solution because then Jim in shipping wasn't tasked with copy/pasting convos into the wiki, etc, but in the words of the CFO, "<CEO> is irrationally attached to being a 'Slack user'". Not so much that they'd be willing to pay money for it though.

tl; dr - people are strange.

This is changing though- the lack of attention giving to the freemium slack is causing a lot of problems for the communities I'm in, and the majority of them are exploring other options.

For instance, I reported a DoS bug that can cripple freemium communities and they basically told me "oh well". For obvious reasons I'm not going to go into details here, but I've got a script I can point at a slack freemium slack community to wipe out a lot of it's functionality that I built as a proof of concept and they just don't seem to care.

There are also huge issues with moderation and harassment on the freemium Slack. Since there is no way to block or ignore a user it gives trolls an insane amount of power (and before someone tells me that you can mute notifications from a person, I'll mention that all the troll needs to do is create a new chat room, force invite the person to it, and continue trolling to bypass it).

Personally I find it really frustrating that slack has kind of destroyed a bunch of IRC communities, but is refusing to build the tools needed to manage these replacements. As more and more freemium communities are figuring this out and migrating I imagine the people pushing Slack because it's what they are familiar with is going to drop.

If you have a problem user on slack, you ban them from the team. If the team has gotten so large that it's impossible to moderate in that way, you shouldn't be using slack, imo.

Agreed, completely. Slack is very much an inappropriate tool for most communities that aren't using a paid plan. That was in fact the point of my post- for lots of people using the freemium version to manage communities does not actually make any sense.

I think mattermost is an appealing alternative, but don't think it has the potential to dominate the enterprise market, but more develop as a successful niche player for the most security conscious companies. It's also something I imagine the other players will address at some point for some kind of a premium enterprise offering.

You do not even have to be too conscious about security as a company. A lot of contracts with companies and/or government agencies in the EU (at least in Germany) require that you handle data according to EU/German laws. If you use a SaaS which does not host in the EU it is a lot harder to satisfy those requirements. To be compliant it is a lot easier to spin up your own Mattermost in a data center here.

Reason?

There is also http://rocket.chat (Open source)

http://ryver.com (free hosted, will add additional premium features later for project management)

http://riot.im (open source)

http://zulip.org (open source)

Maybe something has changed but Mattermost has been far more reliable than rocket chat in my experience

I've managed a rocket.chat server at a previous job, and its very stable as well. The big plus is that its completely free (including ldap support) vs slack and mattermost.

Mattermost is open source as well.

If you use gitlab (CE or EE), you can easily setup Mattermost with LDAP as well: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-mattermost

I'm aware. But the important features for a small company (external auth, ldap) are on a paid tier for Mattermost. Its good that mattermost can tie into gitlab's authentication via ldap (no ldap group permissions though with the OSS tier).

Edit: Gitlab doesn't officially support SSO on top of SSO (AD/LDAP, etc), so its at your own peril: https://docs.mattermost.com/deployment/sso-gitlab.html

Mattermost Team here, thanks for the mention!

One reason for propreitary SaaS over open source used to be setup--but now that Mattermost is on Bitnami it's easier than ever to deploy Mattermost to AWS, Azure, GCP and OCP: https://bitnami.com/stack/mattermost

That is definitely a plus, but the mobile app(s) for mattermost are pretty bad.

I'm guessing it was built a long time ago on cordova or one of those other "write once, run everywhere" frameworks where they just run everything in a WebView.

While the first generation Mattermost mobile apps used web rendering, we have next generation apps in React Native releasing end of March that are rendering natively.

The next generation apps are much faster, and we're excited to release them soon.

Here's the source: https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-mobile

There's instructions on how to get early access as well.

Awesome, I'm glad to hear that. I still use the current mobile app despite my criticisms, but I'm definitely looking forward to the new one(s)!

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