Comment by SubZero | Hacker News Reader

Comment by SubZero | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

As others have stated here, this is largely a reaction to globalization and immigration issues that have been present in the world's view. Globalization has left a large portion of each country behind. Large multinational firms have moved a lot of their low-skill labor to cheaper markets and developing countries, leaving a large swath of former employees in their wake with very little perceived hope of finding another job at the same level. Whether you agree with the feeling of hopelessness or not, you have to admit that there is a large population that feels that way. You can't tell them that their feelings or views are not valid and that this is good for the world; their world just got ruined for the profit of others.

Pair this with a large influx of immigrants from other countries, and it scares people even more. The constant threat of terrorism has caused people to live in fear, and governments to react accordingly.

All in all, those are some major parts of the puzzle.

In another comment section (Reddit, I believe) there was anecdotal evidence that visitors from Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania regularly outstayed their visas and were notorious for violating a tourist visa, hence the additional checks the US wanted to put them through.

> In another comment section (Reddit, I believe) there was anecdotal evidence that visitors from Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania regularly outstayed their visas and were notorious for violating a tourist visa, hence the additional checks the US wanted to put them through.

I guess it was anecdotal evidence, because the data shows the contrary:

- Bulgaria: 1.74% - Croatia: 1.08% - Cyprus: 1.35% - Poland: 1.49% - Romania: 2.06%

There are a few countries on the VWP that have higher overstaying ratios (Hungary, Chile, Slovakia). Croatia in particular has an overstaying ratio lower than Austria's and Netherlands'. Source: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/FY%2015...

The reason they don't get VWP is the visa refusal rate, aka "US embassy in your country does not want to give you visa".

Using the visa refusal rate as an excuse sounds a bit like circular logic: "We're not going to give you online rubber-stamped visas, because we're currently not giving you many visas." I'm not saying that the refusals don't have merit, but since they are discretionary, the refusal rate may never improve. It's just the perception: "Those Eastern-Europeans seem dodgy to me, so we won't allow them because they'll surely overstay." Yet the reality is that they don't overstay so much.

Or do they have low levels of overstay because they are strict on visas in the first place?

Its circular indeed.

"In another comment section (Reddit, I believe) there was anecdotal evidence that visitors from Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania regularly outstayed their visas and were notorious for violating a tourist visa, hence the additional checks the US wanted to put them through."

Well, what would you think if we said the same thing about US-americans (remember the term american is also from Colombians) from a number of states?

No, we the EU are one and if you do this to Bulgaria, you are doing this to all of us. This is not nationalism, it's actually the opposite.

US Americans are just Americans. Only people who are incredibly pedantic think otherwise.

Pedantic or Latin American, in my experience; it's not much fun to be forgotten, and I feel their frustration but can't think of a very good solution. "US-American" doesn't really roll off the tongue... Maybe the US could adopt the same ethnonymn as Usa, Japan? :P

Why though? Like what's wrong with being Brazilian or Chilean??

Brazilians and Chileans are Americans too. Even though they are from another continent.

Well they are South Americans then. In my experience (my Brazilian friends at least) they prefer being called Brazilian. Nobody except those with an axe to grind or more time than is good for them care that people from the United States of America are called Americans. I really wish people would just grow up and stop caring about stupid little things like that.

Or people for who English is not their first language. In Spanish at least, an "americano" is anyone from the Americas. People from the US are "estadounidenses".

Nobody says estadounidenses. The standard, common word in western hemisphere Spanish for people from the United States is an ethnic slur against us.

Which should help indicate how good an idea it is to invite more people from that region to our country.

In Spain at least, "estadounidense" is the standard for "American".

Which is the ethnic slur?

Gringo

Maybe it has something to do with the US/CIA fucking up those countries.

It started with the Mexican-American war of 1846, so that is a viable theory (though the CIA was not yet involved). That's the war Mexicans still teach in every Mexican school with a big famous map showing that California and Texas are Mexican territory unjustly stolen by the USA.

Stolen isn't the right word. Anyway they should just get over it.

Citizens from all the countries you mention can just emigrate to Western Europe, with much less hassle.

On top of that, check the terrorism statistics for these countries, it's basically non-existant (maybe Cyprus has some due to Greek-Turkish tensions).

And as a further point, they're all middle-income economies 10k km away, with a combined population of 60 million people. Barely half of Mexico :)

Terrorism in Cyprus? Been living in Cyprus most of my life I don't remember hearing of any terrorist incidents other than an attempted bombing of Israeli embassy in the 80s. There's definitely more terrorist activity in Western Europe than eastern.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com