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Comment by chairmanwow | Hacker News Reader

Dwarf Fortress was one of the first computer games that I really ever got into. I was a little 15 year old that had a shitty desktop computer that wasn't always connected to the internet and DF has provided me with many tens of hours of entertainment. I remember the depth and realism included in game caused me to want to learn to program myself. I wish the UI was better, but honestly I think the engagement with the keyboard in DF is it's strongest selling point. Every game action can literally be performed with the keyboard, and this means that I don't need to wait for the text on menus to mentally register, move a mouse, click. I can essentially type the commands at speed.

TLDR: DF is a great game that shaped my childhood and motivated me to become a programmer.

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> Every game action can literally be performed with the keyboard, and this means that I don't need to wait for the text on menus to mentally register, move a mouse, click. I can essentially type the commands at speed.

This is a sentiment that crops up again and again. In particular as long time users of a terminal ui (not necessarily CLI but using ASCII/ANSI to draw the interface, and keyboard for input) when they transition to a GUI replacement.

The thing about keyboards is that they are designed to be used without looking. Special keys have special shapes to make them stand out. Every key is in a fixed location. And certain ones are marked but a bump or similar to make them easy to find by touch and thus use as navigational aides.

Yes, mouse and touch screens make it easier and faster to localize and develop a UI. But we humans are quite capable of doing repetitive tasks with our hands without looking.

I think that in RTS and MMORPG circles there is a certain degree of disdain for "clickers". People that operate the game mostly via mouse. This because it is slower and thus limits how quickly they can react to in-game events.

> And certain ones are marked but a bump or similar to make them easy to find by touch and thus use as navigational aides.

Completely off-topic, but there are two keyboard changes over time that absolutely drive me bonkers.

First, caps lock replacing control on the left, but that's not what prompted this post, but I'm still grumpy at Sun and Apple for surrendering to the idiot PC world on that.

Second, moving the bumps from "d" and "k" to "f" and "h". Pretty sure Apple also had that right originally.

When the bumps are supposed on the 2nd finger, you always feel them, even if your fingers are offset by 1. Feeling the bump on the wrong finger is great feedback to fix your hand position.

When the bumps are now in the 1st finger, if your fingers are offset by 1 you don't feel it at all, and it's much harder to notice the absence of something than it is to notice the presence of the bump on the wrong finger.

Bad designers, bad bad.

I think you mean F and J.

edit:

As for the caps lock location, i think you can thank typewriters for that.

As best i recall, they did caps lock by having a mechanical locking lever/key attached to the left side shift key arm. Thus to do caps lock you pushed down the shift key and then locked it in place with that key. Once done you popped the key loose with a press and moved on.

That locking key is pretty much in the same location as the caps lock key is today.

Interesting about the bumps. Lately I've been rehashing some typing tutors (I learned how to type at a very young age). One of the pieces of advice I picked up was to retain your index finger on the home row when you press shift. This is actually impossible on some keyboards, but where it isn't impossible, I was surprised at how much better my typing was.

I learned on an Apple and I wonder now if having the bump on the second key has led to a few problems. I find there is a tendency for me to rotate my hand so that the fingers are no longer on the home row. One of the nice things about changing is that when I'm trying to code on the bus or train, avoiding rotating my hands keeps my elbows in and makes it possible for me to work (yes, I like working on the train :-P).

Not entirely sure what the best answer is for this.

I recently bought my first desktop keyboard and pulled all of the keys off and created my first proper Dvorak keyboard, but in the process created a keyboard without proper bumps in the home row. What I did was cut a double thick strip of electrical tape and stuck it in the correct position. This subtle bump of tape adheres extremely well and feels just as good as the button keys do.

I agree, I wonder what it would be like if you spent you're entire computer upbringing with a brail keyboard, regardless of your sighted-ness...

Bumps on my MBP late '13 are now F & J for what it's worth.

Meant f/j. d/k is better for the reasons I outlined.

>This is a sentiment that crops up again and again. In particular as long time users of a terminal ui (not necessarily CLI but using ASCII/ANSI to draw the interface, and keyboard for input) when they transition to a GUI replacement.

I used to play Bard's Tale when a kid and I had memorizedthe keyboard movements from town to various dungeons on the map, and would navigate the map without even looking as it was muscle-memory for where things were... I always loved that.

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